Keep losing fish!!

Joined
May 5, 2021
Messages
4
Reaction score
2
Country
United Kingdom
Hi all,
New to the forum and looking for help as we are getting desperate. We built a pond in July/August last year in our garden, and we had some goldfish and comets in(3 fish that were about 3-4 inches and around 7 very small ones). All was great and the fish were completely fine until Late december when the small fish one by one started dying. we did as much research as possible and also have a friend with a large well established pond who gave advice and so We had stopped feeding when the temp dropped below 10degrees but between Dec-Feb we lost all fish except 2 large goldfish. Some were floating upside down so we treated for swim bladder with no luck. we bought a pond heater and oxygen stone but it made no difference. The pond has a pump and fountain already.
In March the 2 remaining fish seemed fine and had grown so we bought 3 koi all of which died within 2 weeks. We assumed they were infected already with the original goldfish being fine and so we bought 7 small koi (1-2inches) and 3 larger koi(3-4inches) to refill the pond. Again one by one they started dying at a slower rate so now we are left with the 2 original large goldfish, 4 of the small newer koi and only 1 larger newer koi which has fallen ill today which has led to this post. We check the pond each morning, afternoon and night. The recent fish to die were fine one day and the next morning just lying on their side on the bottom of the pond barely breathing and by night had died. We did a full water change last week and cleaned the pond thoroughly and all was okay until today when we got home and the large koi was lying on his side on bottom of pond. We have quarantined him and he is just floating on his side, breathing but don’t think he will make it through the night. He was swimming okay this morning!!
what can possibly be wrong ?! We have tested the water multiple times throughout the deaths and all the tests Are fine and indicate no issues. We have treated the pond with a general medication course for parasites, fungus etc and have put pond salt in (to de-stress fish only rather than treatment level) but nothing is helping.
Does anyone have any ideas of what is happening?
Sorry for the long post but needed to get as much info as poss over. I have added some detail below. Thank you in advance for any help, it’s really appreciated

Water quality
* Ammonia Level (pond) - 0
* Nitrite Level (pond) -0
* Ph Level - 7.0
*phosphate - 0.25
* Brand of test-kit used and whether strips or drops? - freshwater master test kit - drops (started with strips but changed to the drops)

Other useful information:
* Water temperature? 11degrees
* Pond size and how long has it been running? Since august 2020 - 1.6m L x 0.75m W x 0.6m deep
* What is the name and size of the filter(s)? Hose lock easyclear pump and filter
* How often do you change the water and how much? Have changed it 3 times, usually around 30% but lately did full water change to try to get to bottom of issue
* How many days ago was the last water change and how much did you change? About 6 days and full
* What do you feed your fish and how often? Flakes and normal fish food in summer, wheat germ in cooler months then nothing in winter

* Any unusual findings on the fish? One fish that died two weeks ago was white but had what looked like a red rash all over body. 2 of the small koi that died had fin rot. 1 fish had white fluff on him. These are all in the last 2 months the previous fish died with no signs of illness.
* Any unusual behaviour like staying at the bottom, not eating, etc.? Yes they stay at bottom for a day before dying.
 
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
3,990
Reaction score
2,696
Location
Mount Pocono, Pennsylvania
Hardiness Zone
6a
Sorry to hear about your fish dying. It is quite unusual that you have been having so many fish die.

It could be a lack of oxygen.
Do you have any means of aeration? An air pump with air stones? Even splashing on the surface can help.

Just trying to help. I hope you don't take any of this the wrong way. I don't want to scare you away. I want you to have a great pond experience and stick around here for the wealth of knowledge and experience of the many friendly members.

I don't think this is the cause of deaths, but your pond is way way too small for even one koi. Stick with goldfish and shubunkin. Shubunkin are a very nice fish and don't grow too large.
You need at least 1,000 gallons for the first koi and 250-500 gallons for each additional koi.
Koi grow very large and even when they're small they produce a lot of waste which can strain your filtration.

No need for water changes, especially full water changes.
A pond should not be spotless. The more natural organisms thriving in your pond, the better.
I never do any water changes. I let nature do that when it rains. If you don't get much rain, you may have to top it off due to evaporation.

Also, I don't know if you are doing this, but you should not be emptying your pond and scrubbing the liner. There's a biofilm living on all the surfaces of your pond which is an intricate part of the filtration.

When cleaning your filter pads, use pond water in a bucket if your home's water is chlorinated. The chlorine will kill the beneficial bacteria living on the filter pads. Just rinse the heavy muck off the pads. They shouldn't be hospital clean, just a quick rinse.
If your filter has bio media, leave that alone, don't clean it unless it's totally clogged up. Again, rinse with non-chlorinated water.

Stop adding chemicals.
If you have a sick fish, you can quarantine it in a small hospital container for treatment. Don't treat the whole pond.

Stop adding salt. These are fresh water fish. Years ago it was thought that small quantities of salt were good for fresh water ponds, but that is no longer the consensus.
You can give a sick fish a quick salt water bath in a quarantine tank if you really need to. I have never done that. I feel I wouldn't want to stress the fish by trying to capture it, but that's me.

It's good that you are using the liquid test kit. Those are much more accurate than the type with test strips.

It's also harder to keep a smaller pond in balance than one with a larger quantity of water. Parameters swing much quicker when there's less water.

You didn't mention any plants. Plants are also a key element in the pond's ecosystem. The more plants, the better.

One of the important caveats of pond keeping is patience. Things don't happen overnight.

I'm sure I forgot something, so dig in and read as much as you can throughout this forum. Learn from our experiences and mistakes.
Soon you'll be an expert.

Any questions?
 

j.w

I Love my Goldies
Joined
Feb 1, 2010
Messages
33,828
Reaction score
20,817
Location
Arlington, Washington
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
USDA 8a
Country
United States
1620244451304.gif
@Jo&Ad
I agree w/all that @poconojoe just said. I don't feed my fish after the temps drop to below 55F and don't start feeding till back up to above 55F. Not sure why your fish are dying but perhaps some disease was brought in by some new fish and the ones that survived are just hardier or resistant to it. Just guessing tho.
 
Joined
May 5, 2021
Messages
4
Reaction score
2
Country
United Kingdom
Hi, thank you so much for your replies it’s really helpful.
we tried not to change water before until we started having the deaths and it was suggested online, we only went to the extent of the full change last week at pure desperation for no more to die but it’s noted to not try clean it too much.
For plants we bought some oxygenating pond plants about a month ago (elodea densa?) but again removed these last week when we cleaned the pond in case they had introduced some disease, we still have them growing in a separate tub so will put them back in.
For oxygen we have the main pump that has a fountain on and we leave this on constantly so the water is always splashed, and we also recently brought an electric oxygen stone that keeps lots of bubbles flowing too.
again with the salt this is recent as another attempt at helping but we seem to make things worse!
I think we will reintroduce the plants and not change anything further and wait for the good bacteria build back up. And will stick to goldfish! :)
There was only one other question around feeding, it was really warm for a while last month so we started to feed again however in the last week or so at night it’s been really cold around or below 0•C again, are we best to not feed until the weather is warmer at night ? I don’t know if that’s harming them or not.
Thanks again
 

mrsclem

mrsclem
Joined
Jul 21, 2008
Messages
5,497
Reaction score
4,970
Location
st. mary's county, md.
Hardiness Zone
7A
Country
United States
Just did some calculations, your pond appears to be about 142 us gallons. Way too small for anything but a couple of goldfish. Fish don't need fed in cold weather, their bodies cannot metabolize the food. What is your filter like? Just foam pads? Not familiar with Hozelock. Agree with everything pocanojoe said, no chemicals or salt.
 

addy1

water gardener / gold fish and shubunkins
Moderator
Joined
Jun 23, 2010
Messages
44,909
Reaction score
29,895
Location
Frederick, Maryland
Showcase(s):
1
Hardiness Zone
6b
Country
United States
Welcome to the forum.
If the numbers are right I would stick with some fan tails in the pond, nice small pretty gold fish that do great.
 
Joined
Jul 12, 2009
Messages
3,990
Reaction score
2,696
Location
Mount Pocono, Pennsylvania
Hardiness Zone
6a
Hi, thank you so much for your replies it’s really helpful.
we tried not to change water before until we started having the deaths and it was suggested online, we only went to the extent of the full change last week at pure desperation for no more to die but it’s noted to not try clean it too much.
For plants we bought some oxygenating pond plants about a month ago (elodea densa?) but again removed these last week when we cleaned the pond in case they had introduced some disease, we still have them growing in a separate tub so will put them back in.
For oxygen we have the main pump that has a fountain on and we leave this on constantly so the water is always splashed, and we also recently brought an electric oxygen stone that keeps lots of bubbles flowing too.
again with the salt this is recent as another attempt at helping but we seem to make things worse!
I think we will reintroduce the plants and not change anything further and wait for the good bacteria build back up. And will stick to goldfish! :)
There was only one other question around feeding, it was really warm for a while last month so we started to feed again however in the last week or so at night it’s been really cold around or below 0•C again, are we best to not feed until the weather is warmer at night ? I don’t know if that’s harming them or not.
Thanks again
Sounds like you were in desperation and did everything you could.
I wish we knew what was causing the deaths.

You have good aeration. Good test readings.
I don't know what it could be.
 

Mmathis

TurtleMommy
Joined
Apr 28, 2011
Messages
14,267
Reaction score
8,320
Location
NW Louisiana -- zone 8b
Hardiness Zone
8b
Country
United States
Hello and welcome! So sorry about your losses!

If @mrsclem estimate is correct, your pond is way too small for more than even just a few goldfish. When you add water, are your using from a municipal water source, a well, a spring....? Does your water contain chlorine and/or chloramines, and do you add anything to neutralize these?

Whatever the “cause” is, it’s going to boil down to water quality. Fish get stressed very easily (for example, overstocking, adding new fish without quarantine....), and any time they are under stress, they are more susceptible to illness.

Can you retest your water, especially the ammonia, nitrites, and pH? It doesn’t seem like your ammonia and nitrite levels would be zero. There is usually always some ammonia and nitrites in the water, if there are fish.
 
Joined
May 5, 2021
Messages
4
Reaction score
2
Country
United Kingdom
thanks everyone, we’re not adding any more fish and will see how things go, if the rest of the koi die may add a couple of goldfish to go with the 2 existing ones then leave at that. I will test the water again this weekend as the kit said the results wouldn’t be accurate after doing a water change and will post results
I have uploaded a photo of the pond from last month although it’s not great as you can’t see much it’s the only recent photo I could find. The fountain in the middle comes off the pump, the clear tube hanging over the edge is connected to the oxygen stone, the large round foam thing was the pond heater we bought but we have took this out since. The lily pad things are fake as the fish like sheltering under them until we can get some more plants in there. The plants we have are underwater ones so you can’t see in this photo but I will try to take a recent photo tomorrow if it’s not raining so you can see the fish in there too. We have a ‘cover’ that goes on top, which is just a frame to cap the edges with a mesh netting in the middle to keep things out but this is off for the photo.
 

Attachments

  • 9FE77528-8903-4D31-9D85-89A4645BE1F9.jpeg
    9FE77528-8903-4D31-9D85-89A4645BE1F9.jpeg
    246.9 KB · Views: 61
Joined
May 5, 2021
Messages
4
Reaction score
2
Country
United Kingdom
Hi all , just an update as things seem to calmed down now and remaining fish seem happy. I have tested the water this morning and results again below:
Ph- 7.0
Ammonia - 0
Nitrite - 0
Phosphate - now down to 0ppm also
So according to the book with the testing kit all is okay. No signs of illness now so maybe having the fewer fish left has helped things. Fingers crossed it stays like this. I tried to add a photo of the fish but it’s raining so not very good!
 

Attachments

  • image.jpg
    image.jpg
    205.9 KB · Views: 45

Ask a Question

Want to reply to this thread or ask your own question?

You'll need to choose a username for the site, which only take a couple of moments. After that, you can post your question and our members will help you out.

Ask a Question

Members online

Forum statistics

Threads
31,509
Messages
518,012
Members
13,715
Latest member
badgerboy

Latest Threads

Top