Is it okay to use a 8,000 gallon filter in a 30,000 gallon pond

[Padula35]

Hello,
I have a 30,000 gallon clay bottom pond. We bought this house with the pond last spring, and the previous owner never took care of it. There are lots of minnows, frogs and turtles- both snapping and painting. I have added koi and pond plants including hyacinth and some lilies. In addition I have added 3 aeration bubblers. The water is brown and very cloudy. I’m pretty sure this is due to fine clay particles. I tested this by adding gypsum to some of the water and it cleared up. I’m currently working on getting the right amount of gypsum in the pond.
Now my filter question. I can get a used 8000 gallon filter for a reasonable price, for about 50% of cost of a new one (Aquadine 8000 HE) Is it worth it?
It’s better than what’s in there now (no filter) or will it be more trouble than it’s worth? Will I end up needing to spend the money on a 30,000 gallon filter anyway?
Thanks for your help!
Chris

 

[poconojoe]

I'm guessing that filter might help a little, but as you probably figured, it may be inadequate for your large pond.

Keeping the water from getting muddy might be difficult due to the natural bottom.

I think you have to decide if it's worth buying and I'd say.... that depends on the price.
Are you willing to drop xx amount of money on something that may or may not be much help?
You might also be constantly cleaning out filter pads. It might clog up quickly, especially if it's not up to the task.
Constant rinsing of filter pads can get old real quick. It can take the fun out of ponding.

Many of us are filtering with upflow bog filters. They are very efficient and there's little, if any, maintenance. It pretty much runs itself.
However, your pond is huge and would need a pretty big bog. As a general rule, the bog's surface area needs to be around 30% of the pond's surface area. That may not be feasible for your setup.

 

[combatwombat]

Filters like those usually come with pretty rosy gallon ratings. An 8000 gal filter is probably only good for about 4-5000. Worth it? Depends on the goal/plan. You could start with that and add to it until you have adequate filtration in time.

At 30,000 gal, you might be moving out of the realm of traditional retail filters.

 

[j.w]

@Padula35
If you can do it, I'd do the bog route. Got any photo's of your pond?

 

[Padula35]

Thanks for the advice
I got a price of almost $50,000 to do a bog filter. Unfortunately it’s way over my budget
I’m not looking to get crystal clear water because I feel that will create a whole new issue with predators (osprey, hawks, and heron) I’m just hoping to get the water clear enough to enjoy the koi

 

[Padula35]

Thanks for the advice
I got a price of almost $50,000 to do a bog filter. Unfortunately it’s way over my budget
I’m not looking to get crystal clear water because I feel that will create a whole new issue with predators (osprey, hawks, and heron) I’m just hoping to get the water clear enough to enjoy the koi

 

[poconojoe]

Thanks for the advice
I got a price of almost $50,000 to do a bog filter. Unfortunately it’s way over my budget
I’m not looking to get crystal clear water because I feel that will create a whole new issue with predators (osprey, hawks, and heron) I’m just hoping to get the water clear enough to enjoy the koi

$50,000!
That's nuts!

Is the water muddy or green from algae?
It's hard to tell from the pictures, but I think from what you said, the problem might be the muddy bottom. I dont think any filter within reasonable pricing can help with that.
It may be the constant stirring up of the bottom that causes it and that mud down there isnt going away.

Maybe we can get at the root of the cause.
Sometimes we tend to look at fixing the symptoms and not focusing on the root of the cause.
What feeds water into the pond?
Is there a natural stream or some other water source pouring in that is disturbing the bottom?
If so, can you do something to divert it or spread it out away from the bottom?

I'm grasping for straws here....
I'm just trying to look at the big picture.

 

[Marck]

What keeps stirring up the clay sediment? Did it happen during the plant and bubbler installation? If so, it might settle somewhat when there is less human traffic. Clay particles can stay suspended for quite awhile, but they do eventually settle out.

 

[brokensword]

ever seen a Japanese mud pond? They aren't clear. Koi root the bottom all the time looking for food, constantly stirring the water column above.

And if you have snapping turtles, be prepared to lose the more colorful fish (to herons, too).

What you've got is a wildlife pond and it's going to do what it does without lots of plants, filtration, and a net.

 

[Padula35]

$50,000!
That's nuts!

Is the water muddy or green from algae?
It's hard to tell from the pictures, but I think from what you said, the problem might be the muddy bottom. I dont think any filter within reasonable pricing can help with that.
It may be the constant stirring up of the bottom that causes it and that mud down there isnt going away.

Maybe we can get at the root of the cause.
Sometimes we tend to look at fixing the symptoms and not focusing on the root of the cause.
What feeds water into the pond?
Is there a natural stream or some other water source pouring in that is disturbing the bottom?
If so, can you do something to divert it or spread it out away from the bottom?

I'm grasping for straws here....
I'm just trying to look at the big picture.

Hi thanks for helping. The pond is rain feed, no spring. I think the cloudy is indeed coming from the bottom, could be from the koi routing as they have gotten bigger. Could be a mix of issues, maybe some algae and some bottom mud. The water is more of a brown color The water was more clear in early spring when there was still some ice, before the fish were active.

 

[GBBUDD]

The question is never asked or answered in the way it needs to be. If you have a 3000 gallon pond with 24 koi is not the same as if you have 3000 gallon pond with 3 koi. the answer would not be the same because one pond will need a heck of a lot more filtration then will the other .
You are probably correct that the muddy water will always be as the fish will undoubtedly stir up a natural bottom . The cloudy water will not hurt the fish but only annoys us .

 

[GBBUDD]

$50,000!
That's nuts!

I dumped 3 k on aquablocks so you figure if they need 5 times that plus snorkel and centipedes and all the rock it adds up quick

 

[brokensword]

I dumped 3 k on aquablocks so you figure if they need 5 times that plus snorkel and centipedes and all the rock it adds up quick

that's where MY version of a bog design comes in handy; a LOT cheaper, you're basically paying for pea gravel, round rock, and liner. Be interested to know the dimensions of this bog specced out at $50K.

 

[addy1]

I got a price of almost $50,000 to do a bog filter. Unfortunately it’s way over my budget

My bog handles about 12k gal of water, about, it is 10 ponds various sizes. It is just liner, pvc pipes and pea gravel, and plants. Lots pea gravel, 38000 lbs. My ponds take no care, I can turn them on in the spring and ignore all summer, except for pulling excess plant growth.
I would need to find the cost of the pea gravel, but it was a truck load and not that bad.

 

[jhenkel]

Hello,
I have a 30,000 gallon clay bottom pond. We bought this house with the pond last spring, and the previous owner never took care of it. There are lots of minnows, frogs and turtles- both snapping and painting. I have added koi and pond plants including hyacinth and some lilies. In addition I have added 3 aeration bubblers. The water is brown and very cloudy. I’m pretty sure this is due to fine clay particles. I tested this by adding gypsum to some of the water and it cleared up. I’m currently working on getting the right amount of gypsum in the pond.
Now my filter question. I can get a used 8000 gallon filter for a reasonable price, for about 50% of cost of a new one (Aquadine 8000 HE) Is it worth it?
It’s better than what’s in there now (no filter) or will it be more trouble than it’s worth? Will I end up needing to spend the money on a 30,000 gallon filter anyway?
Thanks for your help!
Chris

I'd first start with a massive aereartion first; you can get a submersible pumps, tons on line for under $100 and let them run 24/7 , use PVC to make a fort like discharge of 2-3 ports so waters doesn't splash too high and it lots of air, if you compressed air pneumatic pumps will work. Keep the pump off the bottom12-+ or so inches, place as close to middle or in the deepest part of the pond - you can't have too many. Also get as much plant life as practical. I'll take awhile, not clue as to advise how long for your pond. Get as much water flow volume as you can.

Pond Rule #1: nothing happens overnight