I lost one of my trout ponds!

[Mike in Vermont]

So, I bumped my first thread here yesterday, because I had existing pics of my pond. Then I realized the current problem belonged in this area. I can use this thread for the rebuilding process as well.
.
When I got home yesterday, I noticed the water was gone in the upper pond. I don't know the exact cause yet. I'm guessing ice built up between the drain and the ground/rock. I think it kept building and pushed the 8 inch drain up until it snapped deep under the bank. Then, the pressure of the water and ice caused a large hole blown about 10 feet under the ground. My bank is still there but has a huge hole in it.
.
None of the water (60 to 80 thousand gallons, depending on how much is left) went through the drain of the second pond. It exited along the side where I left it lower, in case the drain clogged ect... It appears that can be fixed for a few hundred dollars. The entire bank below the first pond will have to be dug up though, and a new drain installed. My concern is, the ground is too frozen to do it now. Mud season will be coming soon. I worry about erosion into the second pond. (There is already some)
.
Here's some pics. You can see where the ice broke without the water to support it. Any frozen dirt attached to it broke as well. Pretty much all around the bank. With the deep snow and ice, it's hard to tell how much if any water is left in the pond.
.

.

.

.

.

.
Here's the hole looking from the lower pond. I figure this goes about 15 feet in, with about 10 feet of dirt /rocks on top.
.

.
Here's a wider shot, so you can see the bank still intact. (for now anyways)
.

.
Here's where it exited the lower pond.
.

.
I feel bad for the fish, plants and 100's of other creatures that call that pond home. I also feel bad I won't be able to sit out there and enjoy it this spring. I will keep you all updated when I know more.
.

 

[Mike in Vermont]

Here's a pic of each pond in the summer for those that haven't seen them.
.

.

 

[MitchM]

Wow.
So this is a spring fed pond that has drained into a lower pond?
Where did the excess water go? Local drainage ditches or did the lower pond hold the majority of the spill?
Does the spring run enough so that there may be enough of a basin that the fish in the upper pond could survive in do you think?

 

[sissy]

All I can say is wow and sorry .I had a pump pushed over one winter but caught it with one foot of water left and after that never wired another pump to a crate again ,if I had not noticed the cave in of ice it could have been bad .I was lucky though I did not loose a fish .

 

[Mike in Vermont]

Wow.
So this is a spring fed pond that has drained into a lower pond?
Where did the excess water go? Local drainage ditches or did the lower pond hold the majority of the spill?
Does the spring run enough so that there may be enough of a basin that the fish in the upper pond could survive in do you think?

The pond is spring fed. It is possible some of the fish have survived. I won't know until the ice melts. Another problem is, we are supposed to be on vacation during that time.
.
As for where the water went? There was quite a swath of melted snow and some erosion. I own about 1000 feet through the woods, to the road. I checked to see if the road washed out. (eek) I think it might of passed close to someone's spring, across the road. I will have to do more investigating in the spring.

 

[Troutredds]

I'm very sorry to hear about your upper pond collapsing, Mike. I'll keep you in my thoughts and prayers.

I realize it's far too soon to fully assess the extent of the damage - but you may consider buying some bales of straw to shore up the area between the ponds. You can also spread it along the banks when things begin to thaw out. This will at least provide some emergency erosion control as you begin your repairs.

Again, my condolences for your loss. Hang in there, my friend in trout!

 

[Mike in Vermont]

That is a great idea, Red. Thanks.

 

[Mike in Vermont]

I'm still trying to fathom how something like this could happen. What are the odds? I am buying a megabucks ticket tomorrow.

 

[Tula]

Wow, I can't believe this....so sorry. I hope the spring provides enough water to sustain your fish.

 

[callingcolleen1]

How very sad Mike, so shocked to hear of your disastrous pond leak. It really looked like a very big pond too, maybe there is still some water and fish down under the ice. Wondering how this could happen, hopefully you can rebuild it too.

 

[MitchM]

I'm pretty sure that the cold weather you've been having has caused the ground to expand or contract and has broken whatever plumbing you had underground.
Like you mentioned above, the water found it's own way out after that.
Every winter there are water main breaks around here during the winter from the ground shifting, and these pipes are 8 - 10 feet underground.

Would it be possible to change the outflow from the upper pond to an above ground overflow instead of a buried pipe?
We have a 1 acre spring fed pond on our property here with an above ground outflow that works pretty well.

.
.

 

[addy1]

Darn Wish you well when it melts.

 

[CeeJayH]

Really sad to see, Mike. I hope the damage isn't too bad when everything thaws out.
.

 

[Mike in Vermont]

I'm pretty sure that the cold weather you've been having has caused the ground to expand or contract and has broken whatever plumbing you had underground.
Like you mentioned above, the water found it's own way out after that.
Every winter there are water main breaks around here during the winter from the ground shifting, and these pipes are 8 - 10 feet underground.

.

I think so too. Several towns have had water mains freezing and breaking. They are buried about 5 1/2 feet. The day before this happened, it was -29 F here.
.

Would it be possible to change the outflow from the upper pond to an above ground overflow instead of a buried pipe?
We have a 1 acre spring fed pond on our property here with an above ground outflow that works pretty well.
.

.
The bank between the two ponds is too steep for an above ground overflow. You bring up a good point, though. The design of the new overflow is very important for the sake of both ponds. I am open to any suggestions or ideas.

 

[MitchM]

An above ground overflow would prevent another pond drain-out but you would need to line the overflow with rocks to prevent erosion.
The drop off from my pond is about 5 feet over the same distance but has a natural sandstone layer that reduces erosion.
Also, the stream outflow during the winter slows down to a very reduced rate but still finds it's way out the overflow even though the ice thickness is 2 to 3 feet.