How to filter with catlitter: Anoxic filtration

[vertigo72]

I found this article hugely interesting, even if fairly technical:
http://www.mankysanke.co.uk/html/anoxic_filtration_part_1.html

It explains how to make a filter with nothing more than catlitter and laterite to create what is called an "anoxic" filter.. Perfect to grow plants in, but this even seems to work just fine without plants. If everything in there is correct, it seems like the ideal way to filter our koi ponds. Cheap, easy and almost zero maintenance.

Has anyone ever seen or heard of this system yet?

 

[koiguy1969]

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/anoxic-filtration-t4652.html

 

[j.w]

I have this stuff that I used in my old aquarium.........I wonder if it would do pretty much the same thing: http://www.seachem.com/Products/product_pages/Flourite.html
It did a wonderful job of growing my aquarium plants :bouncycig:

 

[hotspurdotus]

Very interesting. I'll definitely be taking a closer look at this.

 

[vertigo72]

Ive been googling around a bit on this, and from all accounts Ive seen, it does seem to work and even very well. It does seem to be crucial you use granular, “non-clumping” litter to avoid the filter from going anaerobic, and you still need a prefilter to keep the gunk out. Its only to remove ammonia, nitrites and.. interestingly, nitrates. Forgot to bookmark the link, but some guy did some tests with this concept, measuring everything and even adding pp to color the water and inside the filter (after cutting through it) to study flow, and he says it completely works as advertised. It does apparently take long to startup though, several months or more.

Gonna see if I can find laterite, and if so, Ill redo my lilie baskets. I wont be able to tell anyone if it really works, as I have no measurable amounts of any of those elements (at least not with a simple test kit), but it cant hurt.

 

[addy1]

thanks vertigo, will dig into the article.............i can always add some to my pea gravel bog for added filtration, but so far no algae and water is perfect.

 

[vertigo72]

I read somewhere anoxic filtration should not be combined with traditional aerobic biofiltration, as they would somehow work against each other. Not much detail was given, and I cant really see why either, unless you try to put those anoxic baskets in your biofilter or something.. and even then I dont quite see the problem

 

[jupiter1]

Vertigo,



I have been googleing this system too and yes they do not recommend combining with other types of filters . I find it interesting but like any filter system there are drawbacks .For me the space need for the baskets and the high flow rate .

Been working my way thru this thread,

http://www.koikeeperunleashed.com/forum/showthread.php?308-Anoxic-filtration

Dr, Novack posts some replys in it.

 

[fishin4cars]

I read somewhere anoxic filtration should not be combined with traditional aerobic biofiltration, as they would somehow work against each other. Not much detail was given, and I cant really see why either, unless you try to put those anoxic baskets in your biofilter or something.. and even then I dont quite see the problem

Vertigo, I have heard that when some people were trying new systems for reef tanks. It's been a while but if memory serves me right, One uses oxygen, the other something else, By using both it depletes both from the system and makes both filters work against each other and the fish ultimately get deprived of what they need. I also know that in aquariums that dose with CO2 for planted aquariums that some filters do not run well at all, the plants remove the ammonia and do the breakdown and produce oxygen, during the day. this make the filter work for a while and not for a while. 30 years ago, I hadn't heard nor had anyone tell me anything about Nitrite and Nitrate. I must have said it in several talks that I thought there was more to the breakdown process. then when saltwater started becoming big more and more information started becoming available. now we all know that there is more to it than just ammonia breakdown but that it forms into nitrites and nitrates. when those types of filtration breakdown waste do they know yet what it breaks down to and does it complete with the aerobic bacteria??????

 

[vertigo72]

Ive been reading for hours now, including this "ebook":
http://www.mankysanke.co.uk/html/anoxic_filtration.html

I still havent figured out at least two or three things, maybe someone who read or understood more can help me out?

- Why is it so important or beneficial to put those (forgot the fancy name) filter baskets in a separate filter pond, and diffusely flowing gazillion of gallons of water over them? I was thinking of putting them right in to my main pond, with plants in all of them, simply replacing my current plant baskets (and adding a few more, I need more plants anyway).
- Likewise, why is pre-filtration still important? If dirt settles on top of those baskets, so what?
- How long does it take for these baskets to cycle or become active? Im reading conflicting things between weeks and.. years?

Either way, the more I read, the more Im convinced there is no reason not to use these. Regardless of filters you may already have, just add them to your pond.

If I can find appropriate clay and laterite, Im gonna stuff my pond with them, but keep my other filters. That these conventional filters produce "tons of" nitrate as the author keeps saying, is okay, they already do, and if these anoxic baskets can reduce that, and at the same time help reducing amonia and other toxins, while making my plants grow like crazy, I dont see the downside. Dont care that these baskets might be more effective without my existing filters. Im not trying to win an efficiency competition, I just see an opportunity to make my pond healthier and prettier.

 

[jupiter1]

Heres my guess.

Seperate pond
for looks , keep the baskets out of the main pond .
keep the koi from digging in them making a mess and destroying the baskets majic .
keep the media near the water being treated , remember 24 in depth.

Difusion
keep the media in the baskets , remember the high flow and shallow depth .
use the seperate pond as a setteling chamber.

High flow
from the pictures I have seen the baskets are lip to lip on the bottom , not a lot of room for flow around them . High flow to eliminate dead spots ? I think if you could find a way to put the media in a mesh bags with the litter surrounding the laterite and the hang them in the water flow you may be able to reduce the flow rate

Just my guess

 

[vertigo72]

Heres my guess.
keep the media near the water being treated , remember 24 in depth.

Yeah, another one Im not sure i understand why lol. Also unsure why they put them at the bottom in 24+ inch deep water. One would think it makes more sense to raise them so you have equal amounts of water flowing above and below, as I doubt anything different happens at the top or bottom of those basket (assuming they have perforations at the bottom). And with flows as high as they mention, I dont even understand how depth factors in at all.

Mind you, Im not saying none of it is true of course, I just dont get it. Perhaps I should shoot Dr Novak an email or register on that other forum and ask there.

 

[jupiter1]

Sounds like a plan.

 

[vertigo72]

Plan executed
http://www.koikeeperunleashed.com/forum/showthread.php?308-Anoxic-filtration/page6

 

[shakaho]

The reason for keeping the pots and plants in a separate pond is because the fish will dig in the pots, scatter the contents and munch on the plants. I have pots with plants in clay with gravel on top in my indoor goldfish tanks. The gravel is on the floor of the tank within a few hours. I put larger stones on top of the gravel and they still manage to dig it out. And the poor plants are skeletonized in days. Can you imagine what koi would do?