High KH

[gardenlady]

I walked out to the pond today and saw that one of my fish had died so decided to test the pond which I haven't done for a couple of weeks. The PH is as always a royal blue so it never matches the chart colors so I'm sure it's well over 7.6 but it's consistent so I'm not sweating it. The PH High test this morning had it at 8.4 and also just now which is also consistent with previous readings. The KH however took 20 drops this morning and 19 drops just now to turn to yellow, so I'm looking at a 340.10 reading so that's pretty darn high isn't it since previous readings have taken about 15 drops. Could this have caused the fish to die? My ammonia, nitrite and nitrates are all zero. I'm assuming I need to do a partial water change to lower the KH so my question is how much is partial if I'm correct. We did have a lot of rain the other day so thinking that may have raised the KH. Thanks in advance!

 

[campingcreecher]

Hey just wanted to say with my PH test from API, the Royal Blue color is 9.0. Are you sure you are using the correct color card? Sorry about your fish.

 

[gardenlady]

Here's a photo ..it's the correct one but I wonder why mine doesn't go that high. I've only had it for a few months. 9.0..yikes..but I'm told if it's consistent then it's okay.

 

[campingcreecher]

Wow that card is different from what I have. Just the PH card is different the others are the same. Maybe pick up an individual PH test kit. I've upload a picture of my PH card. My PH had been swinging from 7.5 - 9.0 by the evening. I was having an algae bloom during this time. I bought a better UV bulb and put guilt batting in locations where water was flowing out from the falls and in my skimmer basket. Worked my tail off rinsing all the batting. But my water is clear and bloom is pretty much over.
[sharedmedia=gallery:images:3403]

 

[gardenlady]

Thanks for the photo..weird that they aren't the same huh?? I use the quilt batting as well to keep the water crystal clear. I have it in a smallish pond plant basket with a spitter flowing water into it. When it gets really dirty I replace it with a new patch and then I rinse it out with water and soak it overnight in hydrogen peroxide so it gets it nice and white again. Thanks a lot for taking the time to take the photo of your chart!

 

[crsublette]

Campingcreecher, from that picture, it looks like the Wide Range pH (WRPH) tester, which is fine. Generally, I only use the WRPH tester to know whether to use to the low range or the high range pH tester.

Gardenlady, your picture shows the test care for the API freshwater master test kit, which has 5 tests in it. The far left column is the Low Range pH (LRPH) tester and the column next to it on the right is the High Range pH (HRPH) tester. Genernally, I use these testers since I like how they are more precise in testing for a particular pH range.

 

[gardenlady]

I know its the low and high and I normally do every test when I test the water in addition to the KH. Should I be nervous about the KH being so high? Isn't the highest range 400 which I'm really close to now? Should I just do a partial water change to bring it down *how much is partial*? AND..you've told me before not to sweat the highs if they are consistent ..and I'm talking about the PH level being about 9.0 (it's a lighter royal blue than campingcreecher's card she took a pic of for me, but it's always been that color. I still haven't tested my tap water which you suggested I do.

 

[crsublette]

I walked out to the pond today and saw that one of my fish had died so decided to test the pond which I haven't done for a couple of weeks. 1) The PH is as always a royal blue so it never matches the chart colors so I'm sure it's well over 7.6 but it's consistent so I'm not sweating it. The PH High test this morning had it at 8.4 and also just now which is also consistent with previous readings. 2) The KH however took 20 drops this morning and 19 drops just now to turn to yellow, so I'm looking at a 340.10 reading so that's pretty darn high isn't it since previous readings have taken about 15 drops. Could this have caused the fish to die? My ammonia, nitrite and nitrates are all zero. I'm assuming I need to do a partial water change to lower the KH so my question is how much is partial if I'm correct. 3) We did have a lot of rain the other day so thinking that may have raised the KH. Thanks in advance!

1) The PH is as always a royal blue so it never matches the chart colors so I'm sure it's well over 7.6 but it's consistent so I'm not sweating it. The PH High test this morning had it at 8.4 and also just now which is also consistent with previous readings.

Water's pH must be tested twice, once in the early morning and once in the early evening, to get an accurate pH test of the pond water. The early morning test would tell you if your pH is swinging on the low end of the pH scale. The early evening test would tell you if your pH is swing on the high end of the pH scale.

Remember, it takes both carbonate hardness and calcium hardness to stabilize the pH. KH is the test of carbonate hardness, which stabilizes the lower end of the pH scale. Calcium hardness is what stabilizes the high end of the pH, but there is no good test for calcium hardness unless wanting to spend money on a calcium tester; so, generally, if your pH tester registers 9 or higher, then means the calcium hardness is low, which means the water is becoming calcium deficient.


2) The KH however took 20 drops this morning and 19 drops just now to turn to yellow, so I'm looking at a 340.10 reading so that's pretty darn high isn't it since previous readings have taken about 15 drops. Could this have caused the fish to die?

No, the KH would not have killed your fish. My source water KH is actually 16dKH and fish never showed any signs of stress. I have never heard of a maximum limit that would hurt the fish, but there probably is one somewhere.


3) We did have a lot of rain the other day so thinking that may have raised the KH.

Rain is quite pure water, if it were not for the impurities the rain absorbs as it is falling to the earth. Pure water is an excellent solvent and is actually used to make battery acid. I think this is due to the distilling type of process that occurs when rain is created. Rain naturally has zero KH and has a pH of in the low 5s. As the rain falles to the earth, the contmaminants in the air quickly absorb into the rain. Also, since rain is quite acidic and is an excellent solvent, rain water will quickly absorb any contanimants it encounters in containers and surfaces. Due to the all of these contaminants, the rain might actually have a higher KH and a higher pH along with whatever other contaminants it absorbed through its travel.

I have not ever seen rain have an extremely high KH, which would cause a pond's KH to rise, but I suppose it could happen if the rain runned off some very carbonate rich rock.

 

[crsublette]

Give me a moment. I am a bit windy here. :cheerful: :claphands:

 

[gardenlady]

I did test the ph in the morning and evening and it has always been the royal blue. All the information you are giving me is a little over my head so you are going to have to dumb down for me a little. Should I be concerned about the levels I'm at for the ph and kh and if my readings show the water may be calcium deficient what should I do to remedy it? The KH test says that the level for goldfish should be between 200-400 so I assumed that meant that 400 was the max.

 

[crsublette]

I know its the low and high and I normally do every test when I test the water in addition to the KH. 1) Should I be nervous about the KH being so high? 2) Isn't the highest range 400 which I'm really close to now? 3) Should I just do a partial water change to bring it down *how much is partial*? 4) AND..you've told me before not to sweat the highs if they are consistent ..and I'm talking about the PH level being about 9.0 (it's a lighter royal blue than campingcreecher's card she took a pic of for me, but it's always been that color. I still haven't tested my tap water which you suggested I do.

1) Should I be nervous about the KH being so high?

No. Although, I do not know everything, but I have never heard of KH harming the hardy goldfish and koi that we are accustomed to. Now, KH has more of an impact on other fancy goldfish and tropical fish.


2) Isn't the highest range 400 which I'm really close to now?

Refer to #1.


3) Should I just do a partial water change to bring it down *how much is partial*?

I consider there to be two types of partial water changes: 1) a small 5~10% weekly water change to replenish the minerals in the water; 2) a bigger water change, at least 40% weekly and slowly spread this big change over a period of a day, to dilute the polution created by the fish and other contanimants. If you want to do a bigger water change, of around 40~50%, then spread it out; in otherwords, after the old water has been taken out, spread out that 40% new water over a period of 24 hours or so. Bigger water changes can put your pond and fish into shock and this is why it is good to spread it out. If you want to do anything bigger than 40~50%, then I would strongly recommend a "flow through" water change system, which slowly drip trickles new water into the pond, that is 24/7, while the old pond water runs off, at a low spot or standpipe, out of the pond. More of the serious hobbyists actually maintain "flow through" water change systems that are actually performing a 80~120% weekly water change, but, if the "flow through" system is not properly installed, then there will always be some new water that empties with the old water.

If your source water has a lower pH, then a partial water change would bring it down. Also, a partial water change might bring it down due to potential presence of calcium mineral in the source water. If there is not enough calcium in the water, then the source water will not bring the pH down closer to 8.3~8.5

Be sure to properly aerate the source water, due to the accumulation of carbon dioxide, before testing it since carbon dioxide will artificially lower the pH, but, with a high KH above 9 degree, carbon dioxide has minimal impact on the water's pH. With a 15dKH, the water's pH would definitely not be impacted by carbon dioxide, but there is still an accumulation that can harm the fish even with a 15dKH. So, even though it will not impact your pH test, be sure to still aerate the source water, with a faucet areator or garden nozzle, while adding the water to the pond. If the water addition is a slow trickle into the water, then aerating this water addition is not a concern.


4) AND..you've told me before not to sweat the highs if they are consistent ..and I'm talking about the PH level being about 9.0

If the pH is around 8.3~8.5, with a variance of +/-.2, which would mean around 8.1~8.7, then do not worry. If the pH actually does reach 9.0 or higher, then I would dose the water with calcium chloride. If the pH is 9.0 and ya think it might actually be more like 8.8~8.9, then I would not worry.

 

[crsublette]

I did test the ph in the morning and evening and it has always been the royal blue. All the information you are giving me is a little over my head so you are going to have to dumb down for me a little. Should I be concerned about the levels I'm at for the ph and kh and if my readings show the water may be calcium deficient what should I do to remedy it? The KH test says that the level for goldfish should be between 200-400 so I assumed that meant that 400 was the max.

All that matters is that the pH is stable and relatively steady. If the pH is stable and steady at 7.1, then this is awesome. If the pH is stable and steady at 8.8, then this is awesome.

Yeah, since the KH test kit says 400 is the max, which is 22~23 degrees or drops, then, sure, sounds good enough for me.

 

[gardenlady]

Based on the color chart that campingcreccher posted here my ph is not a 9 as it is a light royal blue which is good news. I read somewhere yesterday that if I took a cup of my tap water and let it sit for 24 hours and then tested the ph level that it would be accurate. That will be tonight but I did test it a few minutes ago which puts it at 18 hours and it is the same light royal blue as when testing from my pond.