Hello all! I'm very new to the world of koi ponds. I've recently just taken on a small koi pond (about 300 gallons) to help out a friend. Her former husband was taking care of them and all I know is that they are all new fish (from this past spring) and the water is also new. I've been caring for them for a few weeks now. From the little that I've been reading I know they have too many fish for the size of the pond. So I already have that working against me. I was scooping leaves daily, slowed their feeding down, took out the filter and pump in preparation for winter here in VT. Unfortunately the weather decided to warm up again and that's when things went wrong. Over a weekend the water warmed up, many leaves fell in the pond and the water is now very dark brown. Before I knew it the biggest fish in the pond was "piping" at the top. I quickly put the filter and pump back in as I realized the oxygen must have been depleted. That seemed to have helped as everyone is still alive and it's been a few days since. Now I'm trying to once again get things back in order for winter prep. I did a water change as I performed a strip test and the ph was reading 5.5! So far two water changes of about 15% and still reading low PH. I'm already quite attached to these guys and am stressed that they are most likely very stressed right now. Should I continue to do more water changes? Does the cold water have any affect on PH readings? Baking soda? Any help would be greatly appreciated, I really want these koi to make it!
help with low ph
- Thread starter Tasha
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koiguy1969
GIGGETY-GIGGETY!!
baking soda is a safe way to raise ph...it will not raise ph over 8.4.no matter how much you add. and 8.4 is an acceptable ph for koi and goldies. but you still want to raise your ph slowly. because ph swings wether up or down can be hazardous to the fish. when you get your ph where you want it, working as a buffer,crushed oyster shells in an area with moving water will help lock it where you'd like it.
j.w
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Hello Tasha, You need to test for more than just ph. Ammonia and nitrite etc. are important also. Get yourself the liquid test kit as they work better than the paper strips. It think I would keep doing those water changes that you have been doing. If there are any leaves or debris in the pond you need to net it all out as that will cause low ph. Rain can also cause low ph.
A pH level of 6.6 to 8.4 is safe. The ideal range is 7.0 to 7.8. If it becomes necessary to adjust the pH it should be done gradually as a sudden pH can cause severe damage. Ammonia should be zero. Any level of ammonia can be a problem. Note that ammonia is more toxic in higher pH ranges.
The nitrite level in your pond water should be zero.
If your ammonia or nitrite level is high it tells you that you either have too many fish or your filter is not doing its job adequately. Another possibility is that your filter may not have had time to cycle if it is a new pond. As with a new pond, a filter that has been shut off for the winter will need time to mature. This can take several weeks. A partial water change should be performed to dilute the high ammonia or nitrite problem during this time.
It is best to set up a regular routine of water testing. Once a week is recommended, more often if you experiencing problems.
A very high or low pH means that something else is not right with your pond, so you must fix that first. Make sure you test your pond at the same time of day each test. The pH level can fluctuate throughout the day. Changing ph too fast can stress the fish.
Once you get your pond stabilized you can add some crushed oyster shell in a mesh bag put in your filter or near the waterfall to keep ph levels correct. If you have too many fish you are either going to have to reduce the load or keep maintenance high. Others will pop in w/ more ideas Tasha and hope this helps.
A pH level of 6.6 to 8.4 is safe. The ideal range is 7.0 to 7.8. If it becomes necessary to adjust the pH it should be done gradually as a sudden pH can cause severe damage. Ammonia should be zero. Any level of ammonia can be a problem. Note that ammonia is more toxic in higher pH ranges.
The nitrite level in your pond water should be zero.
If your ammonia or nitrite level is high it tells you that you either have too many fish or your filter is not doing its job adequately. Another possibility is that your filter may not have had time to cycle if it is a new pond. As with a new pond, a filter that has been shut off for the winter will need time to mature. This can take several weeks. A partial water change should be performed to dilute the high ammonia or nitrite problem during this time.
It is best to set up a regular routine of water testing. Once a week is recommended, more often if you experiencing problems.
A very high or low pH means that something else is not right with your pond, so you must fix that first. Make sure you test your pond at the same time of day each test. The pH level can fluctuate throughout the day. Changing ph too fast can stress the fish.
Once you get your pond stabilized you can add some crushed oyster shell in a mesh bag put in your filter or near the waterfall to keep ph levels correct. If you have too many fish you are either going to have to reduce the load or keep maintenance high. Others will pop in w/ more ideas Tasha and hope this helps.
j.w
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I was typing away koiguy and now I see you have posted. Sorry to have said some of the same things.
Didn't test for ammonia though. I'll look into the liquid testing kit. Thanks again for the ideas!
koiguy1969
GIGGETY-GIGGETY!!
j.w.....why would you apologize? agreeing, it just reaffirms what we've said....and.great minds think alike!!! but then again that can be said for simple minds as well...which category we're in, who knows?.....lol
ididntdoit99
ididntdoit99
Tasha, your post scares me... did you really say 300 gallons and Koi? Also, how are you keeping these little guys alive this winter, I imagine a 300 gallon pond will freeze solid without some major heating.
As JW said...test for ammonia before adjusting pH. At 5.5 pH the problem chemical is called ammonium, raising the pH converts the ammonium to ammonia almost instantly and it's ammonia that can kill fish in short order. Ammonium is not a big threat to fish. Both ammonium and ammonia are detected as the same by tests. Because of the water changes I would hope ammonia is low, but best to be sure. However, depending on your water temp I'm guessing your bio filter has stopped converting ammonia, coupled with high fish load, it could be an issue.
Water temp does effect ammonium - ammonia conversion and also pH. As water warms pH drops, but it isn't so much as to be a concern in your case.
At this point I'd put concern about pH down the list. You're in VT, mid Nov, with a 300 gal over stocked pond. Removing the pump caused fish to gulp air which could be low O2. If this is all true I don't really see them making it through the winter. I'd be looking for new homes for them, indoor tanks. If none of that is possible I'd have to consider culling some of the fish...to me it's that serious. But before that tell us how many fish and sizes to make sure there really is a problem. Also the depth of the pond and if it's in the ground.
If O2 was the cause of the gulping you might consider an air pump/stone, they're pretty cheap. The air could raise pH, but hopefully not much. Since you might be on the edge the air could only help what comes next. If you add air keep it going 24/7 until alkalinity is increased. Turning the pump off and on can cause pH swings, maybe not bad swings, but it sounds like you don't need more issues.
The alkalinity test was very useful, much more so than the pH. Alkalinity is low. But I would forget about that for the moment and work through the serious issue of fish load and winter.
You want to measure the alkalinity of the water supply too so you know what you're adding to the pond. I assume you're not adding rain water to the pond? I mean more than what falls into the pond.
After you know ammonia level is zero you can add baking soda. You will need to add about 1 pound. Spread out over a few days, or week if weather permits, and keep measuring alkalinity. Forget about pH unless you want to measure that too. Alkalinity about 200 ppm would be a good place imo, but going higher, say 300 or 400 wouldn't be a problem.
If this were spring I'd say oyster shell is fine, you'd have time to play around. Oyster shell adds some trace minerals which is nice and can raise alkalinity long term. VT in Nov, there is no long term.
Most importantly....Do not do anything you hear here or from anywhere else until you really think you understand the reasons behind the action. Only you know your pond. If you forget to mention something, we misread something, or there's a miscommunication you need to have enough understanding of whatever to be able to say, wait, that didn't make sense. For example, I'm only assuming you actually have too many fish in the pond, I don't know for certain.
Water temp does effect ammonium - ammonia conversion and also pH. As water warms pH drops, but it isn't so much as to be a concern in your case.
At this point I'd put concern about pH down the list. You're in VT, mid Nov, with a 300 gal over stocked pond. Removing the pump caused fish to gulp air which could be low O2. If this is all true I don't really see them making it through the winter. I'd be looking for new homes for them, indoor tanks. If none of that is possible I'd have to consider culling some of the fish...to me it's that serious. But before that tell us how many fish and sizes to make sure there really is a problem. Also the depth of the pond and if it's in the ground.
If O2 was the cause of the gulping you might consider an air pump/stone, they're pretty cheap. The air could raise pH, but hopefully not much. Since you might be on the edge the air could only help what comes next. If you add air keep it going 24/7 until alkalinity is increased. Turning the pump off and on can cause pH swings, maybe not bad swings, but it sounds like you don't need more issues.
The alkalinity test was very useful, much more so than the pH. Alkalinity is low. But I would forget about that for the moment and work through the serious issue of fish load and winter.
You want to measure the alkalinity of the water supply too so you know what you're adding to the pond. I assume you're not adding rain water to the pond? I mean more than what falls into the pond.
After you know ammonia level is zero you can add baking soda. You will need to add about 1 pound. Spread out over a few days, or week if weather permits, and keep measuring alkalinity. Forget about pH unless you want to measure that too. Alkalinity about 200 ppm would be a good place imo, but going higher, say 300 or 400 wouldn't be a problem.
If this were spring I'd say oyster shell is fine, you'd have time to play around. Oyster shell adds some trace minerals which is nice and can raise alkalinity long term. VT in Nov, there is no long term.
Most importantly....Do not do anything you hear here or from anywhere else until you really think you understand the reasons behind the action. Only you know your pond. If you forget to mention something, we misread something, or there's a miscommunication you need to have enough understanding of whatever to be able to say, wait, that didn't make sense. For example, I'm only assuming you actually have too many fish in the pond, I don't know for certain.
Waterbug,
Well I doubled checked the pond's dimensions and it comes out right around 300 gallons. I wish it were my pond from the start as I definitely wouldn't have put so many fish in it. It just "looks" like too many fish so I'm sure it is. There are five of them and each are around 6-8 inches. Poor guys. Before these fish the owners had others and they lived through the winter in the pond. They just had a deicer in it all winter. No extra aeration. I'm wondering if they were suffering all there lives...
OK, I'll get a better kit and figure out what the ammonia levels are. I'm not using rain water but water from a hose. I treat the water with a dechlorinator before adding it and add it slowly. Argh...what a mess. Thanks again for the responses.
Well I doubled checked the pond's dimensions and it comes out right around 300 gallons. I wish it were my pond from the start as I definitely wouldn't have put so many fish in it. It just "looks" like too many fish so I'm sure it is. There are five of them and each are around 6-8 inches. Poor guys. Before these fish the owners had others and they lived through the winter in the pond. They just had a deicer in it all winter. No extra aeration. I'm wondering if they were suffering all there lives...
OK, I'll get a better kit and figure out what the ammonia levels are. I'm not using rain water but water from a hose. I treat the water with a dechlorinator before adding it and add it slowly. Argh...what a mess. Thanks again for the responses.
ididntdoit99
ididntdoit99
Its important to note that koi can live for a LONG time... those "others" that survived the winter probably died prematurally. (unless they just outgrew the pond and they gave them away)
Also, 300 gallons and 2.5 feet deep? quick pond calculation shows that pond has to be somewhere around 4x4x2.5? a full grown koi can easily be 2-3 feet long.. so yes, the owner is WAY overstocked. One full grown koi couldnt live in that pond comfortably.
Maybe thats why these koi are new? they just buy new ones every year and give the bigger ones away?
j.w
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Gosh I was imagining 30 or more fish in that pond but 5 at that size isn't horrible for now anyways if you keep it really clean and perfect water specs. Can't keep them in for very long as I-99 stated tho. Somebody needs to start digging next Spring or find homes for them. A better choice for a small pond would be a few goldfish. Better make sure that deicer works cuz at that depth that pond could easily freeze solid or bring them inside or find new homes soon before winter sets her claws in good! Wishing you good results :fingersx:
Tasha, thanks for the info. To know the pond made it thru a winter with fish is good news. Also it doesn't sound that overstocked to me, at least today. I was worried it was going to be 20 10" fish or something crazy. You have time. The low pH by itself is not a high risk thing. You sound like you'll doing your best, and better than I've seen many times.
I wouldn't kick yourself wondering if they were suffering. They're fish and fish have a pretty tough life compared to ours but they can handle a lot. If you can improve their lives so much the better for them.
I wouldn't kick yourself wondering if they were suffering. They're fish and fish have a pretty tough life compared to ours but they can handle a lot. If you can improve their lives so much the better for them.
fishin4cars
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Tasha, There is a lot of good agreeable infor already posted. I would go into my explanation but really no need, It's been covered above. I will say for your size pond I doubt your seriously overstocked at this point, But you will be. I have 7 5"-7" koi and 1 2" shubunkin goldfish in a 300 gallon pond. they have been there since early spring and no ill effects. I plan on leaving them right where they are through the winter. HOWEVER, not my location, I'm a lot further south than you and I can leave my pumps running year round.
My concern is the leaves breaking down, low oxygen, low alkalinity, and the PH crashing. That is a recipie for disaster. And this late in the year, with winter already on you even more so. I would agree, if possible if you could get the fish indoors for this year I think I would be looking at options. At least somewhere where you could get the water back under control and house them in a body of water that can be adjusted and filtered. It can still get in the low 60-s and high 50's and you can keep a bacteria bed working. key for your pond right now is keeping the water moving, with air would be great but even a pump something don't just shut it down. second is before you start raising PH, or adjusting alkalinity, take the time to really understand and test everything. As WaterBug has lined out above.
My concern is the leaves breaking down, low oxygen, low alkalinity, and the PH crashing. That is a recipie for disaster. And this late in the year, with winter already on you even more so. I would agree, if possible if you could get the fish indoors for this year I think I would be looking at options. At least somewhere where you could get the water back under control and house them in a body of water that can be adjusted and filtered. It can still get in the low 60-s and high 50's and you can keep a bacteria bed working. key for your pond right now is keeping the water moving, with air would be great but even a pump something don't just shut it down. second is before you start raising PH, or adjusting alkalinity, take the time to really understand and test everything. As WaterBug has lined out above.