help please

[lily]

We have dug out and lined and filled a small pond about a metre wide and deepest 18inches with two lesser shelves. I got twelve assorted small plants to sit at different levels in the pond. They are in small pots with aquatic soil topped with pea gravel. Luckily I had rockery style large stones to line the pond with and some sand stone slabs already.
A problem I have already is two of the taller plants just tip over in the breeze. What do I do about this? do I have to wedge them in between very heavy stones? Also, do I leave the plants in their pots or take them out?
I have got some tadploes and what plants should I have to help them and also to encourage the adult frogs to stay?

Also..... if its okay to ask in same post, We are going to build a pond tomorrow but for fish this time. It will be about twenty feet away from the 'wildlife' pond. What plants should we get for this pond? What cheap and cheerful fish should we start with that are hardy? The fish pond will be 4 ft x 4ft. Do we need to stagger the depth or can we just dig the hole the same all round and how deep does it need to be?

Simplicity is the main thing here and hopefully no pumps etc due to cost limitations.
'Show' isn't an issue. We are just looking for a fish that the family can enjoy and that wont break the bank.

Lastly... we do have a heron that flies by the river about 50 metres from the pond. Will it 'sense' our pond and fish? and our neighbours have cats, will they eat our fish and will they eat our frogs that we are hoping desperately to attract?

 

[Squidhead]

The advise given to me about staggering depth was to not. A shelf will make it easier for some predators to enter the pond. They can stand on the shelf and reach lower, easier. There is a good chance the heron will investigate your pond when it sees it on a fly by. You could put some short lenghts of PVC pipe, big enough for the fish to swim in at the bottom of the pond. This gives them a hiding place, like an underwater "cave". I would seriously consider some sort of pump and mechanical and biological filtration. There are many DIY designs that dont have to be expensive. You can hide it with landscape, trees, shrubs, plants, rocks etc. One thing to look at when buying the pump is not initial cost, but electric usage and reliability. If you gat a good make that uses less electric it will pay for itself over and over. I would keep a small fish load with some smaller goldfish. Keep the bio - load small and you can get away with less in the way of filtration to a degree. If you don't use some sort of filtration, to keep the pond healthy you will have to be on top of maintenance....constantly. I would set a budget and come up with a plan that will work both finacially and realistically on your maintenance time commitment. Do this before you remove your first shovel full of earth.

 

[tremon123]

Just wanted to address the plants falling over issue. Yes leave them in their aquatic pots. When my larger pots have wanted to fall over I do quite often balance them with rocks placed against them, but also I have wrapped twine or wire around them and then placed the end over the pond edge and set a ledge rock on it to hold the twine in place.

 

[koiguy1969]

if you want assurance your plants will stay upright, do them a big favor and remove them from their pots rinse all the clay from the roots and replant them in peagravel...they can then freely feed from the water, put a few 1"or so stones on the top of the gravel to aid in keeping your fish from digging out the gravel.

 

[lily]

thank you
The fish pond is going to be more work than we had thought but today we are going to look at costing a pump. The hole is getting dug as we speak with dad and boys digging for England out there. my wild life pond is only 18inches at its deepest. Should we make this one deeper?

What plants will oxygenate the water and can we put those in today at the same time as the stuff to get rid of the chlorine?

 

[Squidhead]

thank you
The fish pond is going to be more work than we had thought but today we are going to look at costing a pump. The hole is getting dug as we speak with dad and boys digging for England out there. my wild life pond is only 18inches at its deepest. Should we make this one deeper?

What plants will oxygenate the water and can we put those in today at the same time as the stuff to get rid of the chlorine?

True aquatic plants or plants that grow under water, are the ones that oxygenate the water. This includes a "healthy" amount of algae which is also a plant. From what I understand about goldfish or Koi is that they love to uproot and/or eat them. I personally haven't had anything from the carp family since I won a goldfish at the county fair when I was 9 years old. Some of the more popular "oxygenater" plants are Elodea/anacharis, Hornwort, Parrots Feather and Cobomba. I am not sure why they are considered better then other aquatic plants as oxygenators other then their growth rate is high. Maybe they also have a chance against the fish because they can grow rapid. regardless, any true aquatic plant will oxygenate during photosynthesis. It seems that in a fish pond a better source of oxygen exchange and saturation is some sort of feature as a waterfall, spitter, fountain, airstone/bubbler/diffusser, and the like. Water movement is a huge helper to circulate not just O2, but everything else.

Here's some pros and cons of a deeper pond. I'm sure I'll forget something, but here's my rational.

PROS

• Deeper means more water volume. More volume is better in the way of any toxins in the water are diluted.
• Deeper will give the fish chance to hide from some predators

• Water stays cooler near the bottom on hot days

CONS

• • Deeper = more cost. A larger pump, larger weekly water exchange, larger liner etc.

That's really all the Cons I can come up with, except maybe a concern of young children. To me the Pros out weighed the Cons despite cost. I have blown my initial budget out of the water, no pun intended, and I still just have a hole to show for it.

 

[tremon123]

The pvc in the bottom works great for my goldfish. They also use it to get in the shade when I am in the between time of moving plants in or out because the air temp is not cooperating. I have heard it keeps them feeling safer. I have used the pea gravel for planting also and it is great but my shelves are not perfect and still sometimes have a tipping problem. I haven't had a problem with much wildlife except for feral cats. My yard is fenced. My pond is about 30 to 32 inches deep. It doesn't freeze solid with that depth and it is probably a deterent to herons. Are you not mixing your fish with your plants? Is that why two ponds. As for fish...I have four goldfish that were bought at a pet store they called them feeder fish. They survived in the pond all winter and are double their original size. These guys are friendly and come right up to my hand when I am feeding them. Very inexpensive and not too fussy. I put fresh water into my pond about twice a week with the hose and have not put in any dechorlinator. I try to not use any chemicals and just have lots of plants with a pump, filter and waterfall. Seems to work.

 

[Squidhead]

The pvc in the bottom works great for my goldfish. They also use it to get in the shade when I am in the between time of moving plants in or out because the air temp is not cooperating. I have heard it keeps them feeling safer. I have used the pea gravel for planting also and it is great but my shelves are not perfect and still sometimes have a tipping problem. I haven't had a problem with much wildlife except for feral cats. My yard is fenced. My pond is about 30 to 32 inches deep. It doesn't freeze solid with that depth and it is probably a deterent to herons. Are you not mixing your fish with your plants? Is that why two ponds. As for fish...I have four goldfish that were bought at a pet store they called them feeder fish. They survived in the pond all winter and are double their original size. These guys are friendly and come right up to my hand when I am feeding them. Very inexpensive and not too fussy. I put fresh water into my pond about twice a week with the hose and have not put in any dechorlinator. I try to not use any chemicals and just have lots of plants with a pump, filter and waterfall. Seems to work.

If you have well water that doesn't need any chemical treatment you don't need a dechlorinator. If you let your replacement water sit a couple days in a container, you can get away with a dechlorinator. If you have "city water" from a public water supply it is treated with chlorine, ammonia or chlorimine. It may also have levels of nitrites or nitrates. A good dechlorinator like Prime will detoxify those toxic chemicals making it safe for fish as well as your biological filtration /beneficial bacteria. Chlorine, ammonia and chloramine, which is actually a combo of ammonia and chlorine will poison the fish and kill your bacteria colonies in your biofilter. That's why water treatment add these chemicals...to kill bacteria.