Help needed with Koi

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Hello everyone. I've decided to post this hopping that maybe someone would see it and would have some ideas to what it could be with my koi.
I have 3 out of my 18 koi in my pond that have problems since last year. The most problematic one is the gold koi that is seeing in first 2 photos. I'm not new to pond keeping and had ponds for many years and saw many deceases from parasites, ulcers to dropsy. This gold koi doesn't come to a category of anything i've ever seen. Start from the beginning: I got this koi in June 2016 and it was around 8''. It was a big eater and grew up very fast but remained regular nice shape until end of winter of 2019. Sometimes last year in 2019 at the end of February I noticed that it started to be quite fat, round in shape. It otherwise acted normal and didn't show any kinds of sickness. So i was thinking maybe it's pregnant and will lay eggs in the summer and become normal. But it never happened and it stayed fat and round all year. So I thought maybe it became this shape and will stay like that. It look weird as i've never seeing fish this fat, but since it didn't act sick and always had good appetite I didn't do anything. I wouldn't even know what to do anyway. But recently I've started to notice that it slowly started to get even fatter. and now till the point that the scales are stated to be raised and started to look like dropsy fish. It's still doesn't act sick and swims around, eats etc. But at this point I see that it must be something wrong. I'm now sure what I could do. I've had fish with dropsy before and they always showed sickness before they blow up and would never would live that long, only would make it maybe a week or 2, but this one has been fat like this for 1.5 years. But since it started to blow up more now i really worry about this fish and not sure what i should do. I've recently treated the pond with anti-parasite Broad Spectrum Disease Treatment, did 3 treatments, and currently added praziquantel to the pond a few days ago. I do this precautionary treatments every spring. I was thinking that maybe this koi has some kind of intestinal parasites and possibly Prazi could take care of it. So far it's been 3 days since i ended Prazi but for now no changes. I'm not sure if I should try the antibiotic injections, a bit afraid that the water is still not very warm and koi's immune didn't developed like it's in the summer and it maybe it would stress the fish more by taking it out and injecting it. I can also try to isolate it in the tab and put medications, but still not sure what would be the best approach. If anyone ever seeing anything like this and know what would be the best for this koi, your advice would be greatly appreciated. the fist 2 photos is of the koi the way it looks now, and the last 2 is the way it look before 2019.
The other 2 koi i'd like to ask are on the photo #2 and 3. One of them: photo #2 is the platinum koi (next to gold koi) that also last winter became very crooked, his spine looks like it has scoliosis. He just became this way all of the sudden last winter of 2019. He doesn't look or act sick but i was curious if anything could be done to correct it, or it'll be staying this way forever? And the 3rd fish i owned since 2012 and suddenly also last year it started to grow some kind of tumors in 2 places on its side as seeing on photo #3. It's started to grow over a year ago and noticeably getting bigger. I'm wondering if anyone had anything like this and what could be done with it? I once had a fish that grow tumors on it's fins and tale. I sedated it and cut tumors out, the koi was fine after procedure. It was easier since only fins and tale were involved. I could probably try to cut them out in this koi but in this case it looks like it's kinda big and it's on the body not on the fins and I'm a bit afraid if i do cut it out the wound would be too big on his body and may not heal. So if anyone has any experience and/or ideas about any of this 3 koi i described any advice would be greatly appreciated. Th rest of the koi are fine. BTW I know that some may be asking later: all the water parameters are normal. No ammonia or nitrites present PH pretty stable around 8.5. So whatever caused it it's not water parameters.
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Mmathis

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Oh my! Fish illnesses are beyond me, but I wonder if the “fat” koi is egg bound.

Just out of curiosity, how big is your pond?
 
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Oh boy... I'm wondering also if It's egg bound. Remember fish don't really get "pregnant" - they produce eggs that need to be expelled, often forcefully, during spawning. If that never happens, I"m not sure what the next step is. Hopefully someone will pop in here with more experience!

Your fish are beautiful by the way!
 
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The platinum needs a fish chiropractor, I'd guess something happened to put it's back out of alignment. You could try sedating and trying to work the kink out gently, but be very careful as you might damage the spine. For the gold one, if it's a female, you could try to manually express the eggs, or it may have internal tumors. As for your other one, that would require a vet who knows more about fish. I would euthanize it if the fish shows signs of distress, problems eating, or swimming. Untill then, you can either try the ideas others and I have offered, or seek a vet. There is a koi only forum that may offer better advice, you might try there.
 
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Hello and i want to thank everyone for posting replies! I would answer to questions some of you posted. My pond currently is 4000 gallons. We started it with about 300 gallons 9 years ago just gold fish pond and kept rebuilding and expanding about 6-7 times till we reached this size. Last expansion we did in the summer 2018 when built that was planned as separate oranda pond at the time to separate my oranda fish from koi that were picking on them. And that expansion has a around 18'' path with main pond that was blocked off so koi couldn't get to oranda's pond as seeing on first photo. But after summer 2018 some of my orandas started to have a problem with cold weather and not tolerating it, so I had to bring them inside, but since i don't have much room to keep them inside, I decided to give them up to people with very large aquariums. so that way I gave away all my very large orandas that i had in the pond for years. The path to the pond expansion was opened for koi and they seem to love it and swim back and forth between small extension (that is about 500 gallons) to the main pond. I also have 1/2 HP artesian pump and Ultima II 6000 filter, and to audition it's 5 waterfall boxes with bio media and mechanical filtration. 2 Aqua UV lights: 57 and 25 watts. I ran main filter witch is stationed inside the shed with pump and prefilter all winter long (waterfalls I shut down for the winter) Also have Venturi return for added oxygen. The venturi and air pump are not operating yet as weather still not stable and no hot wether came yet. From the photos you can have an idea. As for all the fish I mentioned they don't show any distress but I worry about the fat koi the most, as it's just get bigger and bigger. I was thinking about the egg bound and was hoping that it would lay eggs and get normal last summer, but it hasn't happened and it stayed the same, and now seem like getting even bigger. I've honestly done many things to fish, from antibiotic injections, to scrapings for parasites, and even gave haircuts to my orandas when i had them and their wens were becoming overgrown to the point that it covered their eyes and they became blinded, so i sedated them and trimmed their wens but never had this kind of problems. It it is the eggs and clearly this koi can't get them out by itself I would like to know how I can push them out without possibly hurting the fish. I'll try to google it and see if i find anything, but if anyone happen to know or have experience with this type of thing i would really appreciate any help or advice! The other 2 fish i previously mentioned do not look sick, it's just cosmetic so far and of course they lost their beautiful appearance that they had before. You can see on the last photo how beautiful the fish was before those tumors started to grow on it. And the same with platinum koi that used to be very exceptional and now just so crooked. I would like to do something but only if i know exactly what to do and not to hurt them. So far i'm not confident to do anything and be sure that fish will not be hurt. Maybe someone already did some procedures and may give me some advice, that would be great.
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Oh boy... I'm wondering also if It's egg bound. Remember fish don't really get "pregnant" - they produce eggs that need to be expelled, often forcefully, during spawning. If that never happens, I"m not sure what the next step is. Hopefully someone will pop in here with more experience!

Your fish are beautiful by the way!
Thanks, I have great selection of different koi that are mostly healthy, just troubled with this 3 and honestly would like to try to learn enough and help them back to normal. Hopping that maybe someone with this kind of experience would come around and share with me! But i posted general reply with more info and photos above.
 
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What I have seen on manually expressing eggs. They wrap the fish in a damp towel, tuck head under arm so that the tail end is facing out, then massage the lower abdomen, and in firm smooth motions, moving from front ( of the fish) to tail, they basically squeeze the eggs out. Thumb to one side of the body, fingers to the other, using the entire hand to apply a smooth pressure.
 
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Hello everyone again. I just did some google search about how to treat egg bound fish and something popped up thatvyou'd have to inject it with hormone: Injection into the abdominal cavity. Leutinizing Hormone Releasing Hormone (LHRH): Mammalian gonadotropin that has been used to induce the reproductive cascade in fish. even found the video:
I even found this hormone at some pet pharmacy: https://www.allivet.com/p-3061-chorulon-hcg-10-000-iu-10ml.aspx the problem is that you need a prescription for it and no vet around here that we have is treating fish not they would give you prescription for it. I even asked my vet that treats my cats, but they said that they don't deal with fish, nor they would give me a prescription. i could've injected the fish with it but dilemma is where to get it or get a prescription for it. Maybe anyone has an idea?
 

Mmathis

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The problem with self-treating pets is that we first have know what the problem is.....which is called self-diagnosis (well, in people, anyway), and to have the expertise to carry out a treatment/cure. There is a similar video that shows how to differentiate between egg-binding and other “diseases“ that can cause bloating, which is geared toward the more novice fish-keeper.

If I were you, I would go over and join KOIPHEN, which is a forum dedicated to koi. They have a topic entirely dedicated to koi (and GF) ailments, and they have members who have specialty training in diseases and treatments. They are way more tuned into different medical treatments.

Your pond is gorgeous, BTW!
 
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The problem with self-treating pets is that we first have know what the problem is.....which is called self-diagnosis (well, in people, anyway), and to have the expertise to carry out a treatment/cure. There is a similar video that shows how to differentiate between egg-binding and other “diseases“ that can cause bloating, which is geared toward the more novice fish-keeper.

If I were you, I would go over and join KOIPHEN, which is a forum dedicated to koi. They have a topic entirely dedicated to koi (and GF) ailments, and they have members who have specialty training in diseases and treatments. They are way more tuned into different medical treatments.

Your pond is gorgeous, BTW!
Thanks a lot, I'll do so, I actually already got into their forums and read some advice that i may try to follow. Also registered there but waiting for moderator's approval of registration and will hopefully will be able and try to possible post my problem there.
 
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To me, the fat koi looks like it has a tumor. I've seen those before and the fish are perfectly normal acting until they aren't. Most live for a few years looking bloated like that.

Bent spines can be caused by injury or an electrical charge in the water, even lightening. Please don't try to straighten it out. It has enough spinal damage already.

Lovely pond you have there. Sorry you are having problems with some of your fish.
 
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Thanks everyone for your replies and advices. I just wanted to post an update on my koi that i've been quarantining. Also wanted to thank everyone who replied and gave me advice! I also wrote on facebook to fish Dr Loh: https://www.facebook.com/permalink.p...tion&ref=notif that gave me some advice including looking for a vet who takes care of fish. looked up the fishvet.org finder and located one vet quite far (over 50 miles from me) Called them, but it's very unrealistic to even try taking this koi there as prices they gave me are enormous: it would cost me about $700 just to diagnose this fish (regular visit plus x-ray/ultrasound etc) and only could imagine if this is the tumor what the surgery would cost! this kind of prices are unrealistic as we all know that it will be no guaranty that this fish would even be curable and survive the surgery. So I'm bound to try the best i can for her myself. So i'm continue to quarantine it: it‘s 2 weeks of quarantine today with 0.6 % salt and Elbagin got (PAFURAZINE F) as I called Cascade ponds to find out the difference from original Elbagin, I do about 50% water change with adding the salt and Elbagin every 3 days. And of course the koi wasn't fed at all for the quarantine time so far as i saw someone on koiphen forum suggested to suggested to starve the fish. Hoping that starvation would forse the body to absorb the eggs. Also Dr Loh advised me about Ovaprim injections. So I actually was able to get the Ovaprim he referred and just received it 2 days ago. I would try to inject the koi with it but not too sure how to dose it yet and if i should inject it now while it in quarantine and then try to massage it's belly or just wait till I'm ready to put her back in the pond and then inject it before putting it in and hope that nature would take it's course. Need to either wait till he answers me on facebook or do some more research. Maybe someone dealt with this hormone or know the best way how to use it, is so any advice would be appreciated. I'm including a photo of the fish from the beginning what i put it on meds and starvation quarantine on 5/21. in the middle about a week of quarantine fish got a little injured by wondering raccoon that probably tryed to get into the tab, it lost quite a bit of scales that were sticking up from her stretched belly. It looks like that sores from lost scales are healing up pretty nicely now. The top 2 photos were taken on the day it went on quarantine and 2 days later. The middle 2 were taken a week later on 5/28 and the bottom 2 are 10 days later (2 days ado) on 6/1. Not sure if it's just my imagination but it seems to me that it's not as fat as it was on the day it went on quarantine, but maybe you'd be better judge of it by looking on the photos. Will anyone advice to keep it longer on quarantine? i was thinking maybe another week? Does anyone know how long the fish could survive without food?
 

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I have to agree with the looks like a tumor.. the bulges are only on one side of the fish . egg bound would be WELL ROUNDED AND EVEN.
 
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I have to agree with the looks like a tumor.. the bulges are only on one side of the fish . egg bound would be WELL ROUNDED AND EVEN.
it's possible that it could be a tumor. But it's not accurate that the belly bulging only on one side. probably some of the photos taken from different angles and make an impression that it's bulging on one side. In reality it's actually pretty symmetrical and bulges on both side equally. Like seeing on very first photo i posted. Reposting it again here. the other photos: # 2&3 were taken after 1 week of starving quarantine, and #4&5 10 days into quarantine. It does look like bulging a bit smaller and going down. Please check out those photos and let me know what you think. today was 2 weeks since i started the quarantine. I'm thinking to keep it on staving and medication/salt quarantine for maybe another week. Hopefully fish could sustain 3 weeks of starvation. in the beginning of the quarantine she was swimming a lot in the tank constantly looking for food, but now she's more slow and mostly sitting on the bottom, maybe just getting weaker without food. Also got the hormone Ovaprim and thinkoingvof injecting her before releasing to the pond and hopefully if it is an egg bound it would promote maturation of whatever eggs still left and she'll release them with help some of my males. Bought the Ovaprim here: https://syndel.com/product/ovaprim/ Wondering if anyone ever had any dealing with injecting Ovaprim? i did the antibiotic injections but as I saw that Ovaprim injection is a bit different. Also it should be dosed based on the fish weight and i'm not quite sure how to weight this one: she's very large and i don't know how to weight it. would need big scale. maybe i could just follow the approximate chart like this and have approximate weight by length of the koi? https://russellwatergardens.com/pages/koi-length-and-weight
 

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