HELP! diy pond filter

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i have just made a new pond filter 2 60 ltr blue food barrels fed from in pond pump via 40mm pvc pipe with upfill then top outlet into bottom of 2nd drum again via 40mm pvc pipe work upfilling and top outlet down into a kockney koi black box via 40mm spray bar, the problem i am having is the 1st barrel fills then the 2nd barrel fills fine then the water goes to the black box and seems to spirt and slow and spirt and slow ,and then the 1st barrel over flows ?

what have i done wrong ??
do i need to add an extra outlet to the second barrel or do i need to fit a breather pipe somewhere if so where at what point would i fit it ?

any advice would be great :fish2: :frown: :fish2:

Ian
 
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There are several members here who are really good with DIY filters, so hopefully one of them will see your post soon. BTW, if you can take pictures of exactly what you built, that may make it easier for them to spot the issue(s)...
 

koiguy1969

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i dont know if i'm reading this right.. but i think you may just need to enlarge the pipe between barrel 2 and the black box, maybe vent the pipe. show some pics. so we can see the setup. are the barrels level? above the water line? as a general rule. pipes leaving a single gravity filter or 'series' plumbed gravity system should be larger than those feeding it
 
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Ian,

Beyond the suggestion of having a larger exit pipe diameter than the inlet pipe, I see from your pix that the exit from the second barrel should have a vent system. All the other pipes are naturally self-venting by nature of the way you plumbed them (air can escape at the same moment the water does), but the exit from the second barrel comes straight up and goes nearly straight back down. This leaves an air trap in the horizontal pipe section where it goes through the barrel wall. I would install a Tee fitting in this pipe in place of the ell fitting on the outside of the barrel with the top of the tee left open. Add a short, vertical extension or riser pipe to the open (top) end of the tee to prevent any overflow there, extend this riser just above the top of the barrel.

The next part of the system that needs to be addressed is the Black Box filter. I do believe that you need to supply water to this filter via a pump. I don't know if gravity supply is going to cut it. Since it has spray bars internally, it will require some measure of positive pressure, probably beyond what your gravity feed system is capable of supplying. The water is just going to "dribble" out of the spray bar/s otherwise and your second barrel will overflow, as you reported.

You might need to install a pump on your second barrel's outlet for this, or, before trying that.... Try installing your exit pipe from the second barrel at the bottom of the barrel, and don't plumb it with any rise. Now, you will have the pressure of the height of the entire water column in that second barrel acting almost as a pump outlet. Possibly, the barrel won't fill up to full capacity because the outlet is going to be flowing right out the bottom. However, since your Black Box filter requires some back pressure to operate its spray bar/s, the barrel may actually fill to the optimum level to satisfy this. This is definitely a "maybe" situation as I don't know what the recommended pressure of the Black Box filter is, but it would be a relatively simple experiment to find out the answer, without purchasing an additional pump.

As it stands right now, you only have the pressure from the weight of a 40mm diameter column of water 75 to 90 cm in height (just the water which is in the vertical section of the pipe leaving the second barrel) feeding your Black Box filter and you also have the problem with the air trap as well. This is obviously not sufficient pressure nor volume to operate the spray bar "nozzles" and prevent your second barrel from overflowing.

As for the sizing of inlet vs outlet plumbing, you don't always have to use larger outlet pipes than inlets. Explanation: If you are gravity feeding a series of three barrels, the same pressure and volume of water entering one barrel and leaving it is virtually the same throughout the chain if there is no filter media in the barrels. If you put filter media in the middle barrel, you might restrict the water flow through it. It might overflow. But, adding a larger diameter outlet pipe won't alter that overflow problem. A larger outlet pipe won't make the water move through the filter media any faster.

However, if you are feeding the first barrel with a pressurized pump, then you change the situation. You might have a 2 inch pipe feeding into the barrel under high pressure and volume, but a 2 inch pipe going out via gravity flow. With NO filter media in the barrel, the volume of water entering may be too much water to exit the 2 inch pipe via non pressurized flow and the barrel will overflow.

Just wanted to make these statements regarding inlet/outlet pipe dimensions and when/why they are important. So if you are using all gravity flow, you don't need to oversize your exit pipes between barrels. The added expense is not necessary in such scenarios, but they ARE necessary in other applications.

Catfishnut
 

HTH

Howard
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How big is your pond ? What media do you plan to put in the barrels ?

I agree with Catfishnut but I suggest you either not use the black box or split the pump output and run part through the barrels and part through the black box.

In regards to filtration in general. We don't need pond filters to be perfect. Much of what is missed in this pass is filtered out in the next. With repeated passes we get the same result as fancy filters but with a lot less maintenance and expense.

Upflow filters are wonderful things you can trap sediment as you would with a sponge but cleaning is a simple as opening the backfluxh valve about once a week.

The black box filter.
blackbox8.jpg

Assuming that the barrels are working (we do not yet know what the media is) and large enough to handle the ponds bio load they may well make everything but the UV in the black box filter redundant. The sponges will need cleaning because bio filters are alive and produces waste in the form of dead bacteria even when they are filtering mechanically clean water. The polishing section might be beneficial.
 
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thanks guys all advice is greatly appreciated.

i haven't quite decided what media to use yet the black box is currently full with alfagrog on the bottom then small gravel then a larger gravel, i was think of removing all of this and just using k3 and an air stone in there and putting the gravel in the second barrel ? i currently have brushes in the 1st barrel. or would i be better off filling both with gravel?

My pond is 11" x 9" and 3" deep sqaure side no shelves and 2 lillies.

i have split the outlet from the 1st barrel between the blackbox and the 2nd barrel ,which seems to have stopped the overflow problem the flow now leaves the top of barrel 1 and splits in a T 1 to barrel 1 and the other to blackbox the outlet from barrel 2 then goes through another T to join back with the feed for the blackbox which seems to have a decent pressure behind the spraybar.

no leaks yet
Ian
 

HTH

Howard
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This is me. Others will have their own ideas.

I gave up on using gravel in filters. it is a lot of work to install and remove, clogs etc. If it were me I would ditch it.

The brushes are going to trap a lot. Given that it is a up flow it will trap even more.

I would leave the 2nd barrel as an up flow and fill with whatever media you can afford.

I use gallons of 2" sections of PVC pipe as my bottom layer followed by a foot or 18 inches of bio balls.
It still amazes me when I back flush that filter. If I have them I put water hyacinths in the hat.

Oh I need to tell you I use a grid to hold the media off the bottoms of the barrel.. I am not 100% that is needed but the thinking is that it keeps the really heave stuff out of the media and give a more uniform flow and backflush.
 
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yeh i got the grids in there ready , thinking along the same lines myself with regards to the gravel and maintenance of the stuff.

i have quite a bit of alfagrog and i'm pretty sure i have flocor stored somewhere ,

i was thinking if i put the flocor in the botom of barrel 2 and the alfagrog on top would it be of any benefit or would i be wasting my time , i'm still intending using k3 in the blackbox .
and maybe leave it open and put plants into it,

all the advice is great and is really clearing things up for myself .

all i had originally was the box and prebought sponge filters which keep clogging so i'm pretty new to DIY filters


Ian
 
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I think your reducing the flow too much we have a similar setup but no black box just an in line Oase 3500 pump to move everything around .
I take it the pump is in the back box yes ?
Personally scrap the black box fix an inline pump with enough b***'s to pump everything through then return it via a U'V-C .
We go Vortex, Jap Matting filter(with zeolite and sponges), Jap Matting filter (with Batting and Lithaqua), then last but not least the bio filter so I'm using four filters to remove all the detritus prior to it returning to the pond everything is 4" pipework reduced to 2" going into the inline pump.
Your Pipework is fine its the black box that just wont cut it I'm affraid

rgrds

Dave
 
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ty dave ,
the pump is sited in bottom of pond , the flow seems fine ,just wondering what to use to catch the finer waste after coming through the brushes and before hitting the kaldnes.
 

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