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Message: [QUOTE="Chrisv, post: 481051, member: 18163"] Well this forum seems like the party bus of the fishkeeping world! I figure it's best to never ever start a project with a budget. If I planned out a budget I would never launch anything, because actual costs always end up being 3-10x what is reasonable. I'm thinking more about starting with a dream and then figuring out the rest as I go. I like the shubunkins that JW posted, but I don't have a guard dog and so I think I need some fish that are a bit more intimidating. So if I know that I want a group of big honkin' koi fish, I can start to work back from there. Maybe 6-10 fish. Clearly the pond will need to be massive by my standards or they will never grow. And if I still live in MA when I build this thing, I'm thinking it will need to be pretty deep to accommodate the cold winters. There sure does seem to be some heated debate about making more naturalistic ponds vs bare bones ponds when the goal is to house koi. I hope to learn more about the thought process there. I have to admit that I like the idea of lots of cool plants... But I want to learn more about why people are so dedicated to koi only type setups. [/QUOTE]