Hello! Newbs, possibly in over our heads

[TKForever]

Hi! Two new members, first post! There seems to be a good community here so we are looking forward to your guidance and knowledge! We're getting a little bit desperate and frustrated, and with good cause. We may be over our heads..!

Our pond is 5.5ft deep, about 5000 gallons. We just started it this year (meaning we just put the liner in, and started the mechanical/biological filtration, and a few fish to start it up). It has full sun so we've been battling algae since about the middle of June.

Algaecide worked once to clear it up, but then we seemed to have parasites (we're treating the fish now), but our pH is ridiculously high at 8.5 so we were afraid that might be what is iritating the fish (or maybe it's parasites AND high pH! ). The pH stays steady at 8.5, but we have a low level of amonia which we know can be amplified by high pH. We're hoping that if we incorporate more shade and some plants pH and water quality will improve over all, but boy does it get frustrating.....!!!!!

Besides all of that fun, we ended up draining the whole pond for fear of parasites, and scrubbed & dried everything. We refilled the pond and have given it about a week to cycle through the filter with bio-boost, water conditioner, etc.

A few days after we refilled it, a strange white-ish residue started developing over all the underwater surfaces; the tubing at the bottom, the pond liner sides and bottom, and the pump surface. When you touch it can be wiped off easily, but dissolves completely in the water once rubbed off, so you can't even get a closer look at the color or quality. It feels powdery, and a little grainy when you wipe it off. I can't find any reference to what it might be!

Here are some pictures; not so great with the sun glare, and we have a tarp over it to try and minimize the sun exposure temporarily. We did not have this problem before we drained & refilled the pond.

I'm tempted to just fill the thing in with dirt.............................. -_- Any clues?

 

[sissy]

welcome and it looks like calcium deposits .Do you have city water and are you treating it ,do you have a test kit and you should have left it go as it can take 2 to 4 months to cycle and now you are starting over .Get some quilt batting make a basket and put the quilt batting in it and run pond hose into quilt batting ,You need lots of air and water movement .I use lava rock in my filters and peroxide to fight the algae .I soak my quilt batting in it with water
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[sissy]

calcium is ok if that is what it is and we add oyster shells to our ponds just to get extra calcium .We use the crushed oyster shells that we get from tractor supply that they feed to chickens to make the egg shells harder .it buffers the water and stabilizes ph also .Are you tinting your water or is the liner that color .I also see a seam that makes it look like a pool liner or one of those billboard pond liners

 

[dieselplower]

Is the pond a heart shape intentionally? The whole area looks real nice. I have no idea what the white junk is.

 

[addy1]

The deposit could be a by product of the water conditioner, bio boost etc. I would get some real good air flow going, filter it through some fine stuff like sissy suggests, sweep the bottom stirring it up. I had real fine debris on the bottom of my pond after filling it.

Get a good test kit, test the water see what your readings are.

 

[TKForever]

Ok. I won't fill it in with dirt, yet. LOL. Thanks for all the replies! We will definitely try to scrub and get some additional airflow-- we have 2 waterfalls currently under construction, and I believe we're going to add 2 air stones as well. We scrubbed it once, and after 2 days it looks like the deposits are coming right on back. Blah! Scrubbing again!!

The pond is heart-shaped intentionally and we do have a pond liner (boy, was that fun getting it in place........ :banghead3: ).

We have not tinted the water, yet; the blue tint is from the tarp we have over the pond protecting it from constant sun (it really does get 12hrs of direct sunlight, if not more). We're considering tinting the water to help protect the fish from the sun... Getting mixed info on whether that is effective, so we'll keep researching

We have been testing the water, and the pH rises from 7.5 (our normal tap water) to 8.0 and up, both before we drained it and after. We have a 100 micron filter level in our filter also, but maybe that's not enough? :disappointed_anim:

Thank you every one for your advice!! We were really frustrated, but 24hrs and introducing some fish into the pond again to restart the ecosystem has calmed us down a little bit.

 

[Mmathis]

Welcome! Is your pond heart-shaped? Cool!

 

[CometKeith]

TK, good luck with your pond. There is actually a ton to know about having a pond and it can take some time to get things going in the right direction. I would add some plants. Plants will lower the ph over time. it's not unusual for a pond's ph to go down significantly a year after is has been established. I wonder if water from rain is going over the pavers into the pond? Cement products using Portland cement are relatively inert but pavers are made differently and can have a high alkaline presence (high ph). If you are getting water runnoff into the pond you may need to change the design a little. Whatever you do don't clean your pond. It can take a couple months to fully cycle a new pond. Floating plants will compete with algae for the same nutrients they need to grow and also will shade your water so it doesn't get so hot. Also I don't believe in adding adding chemicals. Usually they have little affect and aren't worth the bother. The more you can do to keep the water quality good naturally the better.

 

[sissy]

You could pick up all the fine stuff with quilt batting and that would help but remember your liner is going to get covered in good muck so it does not matter .You will go through a green stage most times also .You never see the bottom of your liner after it gets established

 

[pecan]

Welcome and patience my friend

Algae blooms are very common in new ponds. The algae can actually be beneficial in filtering the water until biological filtration kicks in..

Don't ever use any chemicals like algae gone stuff, they are a quick fix for a non issue that can hurt your fish.

There are some things an impatient person can do to try and speed up the process of clearing the pond.

Barely Bales
Activated Charcoal
Run water through quilt batting

Others may add some more ideas.

We started our pond in June 2011 and had green water for about 2 months before it cleared. Our pond is also in full sun from the time the sun comes up till it goes down. Our pond is also about 5000 gallons.

As far as ph, our pond has always had a steady ph of about 8 - 8.5 and all other levels at 0. Our fish have always been happy and healthy. Fish can live and thrive in high ph as long as the other readings are 0. Trying to adjust the ph can be harmful to your fish and ph swings are much worse for them then a steady high ph. I would not worry about the ph.

Plants help clear water in the long run. Skippy filters and a small bog area has completely changed our pond and we have not had an algae bloom since.

BTW, Beautiful design

 

[Sheetmetalman]

I agree with Keith, the fine white dust sounds like concrete dust from your paver edging. My pond is 5.5 feet deep and 5000 gallons so their a lot alike except for the heart shape, LOL--which is cool--never seen that before. As far as the algae, Pecan said it best--PATIENCE--when my pond was new in 2011 I fought algae blooms as well as string algae a lot that first year and I only have full sun about 4 or 5 hours a day. New water as well as no real biological filtration at first has a lot to do with it- without fish waste being carried into the biological filter you wont have much if any bacteria growth, and the water doesn't have nutrients to help plant growth but then as you get fish waste and discarded food, if theres no bacteria to use it then the algae and plants uses it to grow--a big catch 22 until your pond balances-I follow the Skippy Filter inventors Pond beliefs--BALANCE--it takes a new pond time to come into balance with nature--the fish, the plants, the filter, the water, even the different strains of algae have to mesh together and find natures balance where one doesn't dominate the others. I hope that doesn't sound to new-age hippyish, LOL-- but it all boils down to having patience--yes, you can do things to help nature go in the direction you want--blue dye works, I used it that first summer but as my plants spread across the pond I slowly, thru partial water changes I weaned the pond off of it. It works but all its doing is tinting (shading) the water to make poorer conditions for algae growth. Plant coverage or Sissys sail cloth will do the same thing and you will still be able to see the colors of your fish unlike with blue dye. I think if it was me I would go get several Lilly pads and drop them in different parts of the pond and get several water hycinthes and water lettuce plants and drop them in. Also about a dozen 2 or 3 inch long koi a dozen 35 cent goldfish and 5 or 6 albino catfish to generate fish waste for the filter and the plants and set back with a beer , relax and above all have patience, and see what happens. I know what should happen because that's exactly what I did with my 5000 gallon pond and everything turned out Ok and I usually have terrible luck, LOL. Moral of the story is, listen to all of the advise from all the good people on here then pick the things that you think will work best in your situation--since every pond has so many different variables, Size, geographic location, amount of sun, or shade, ambient temperature, fish load, filter size and style-well you get the point--what works here or over there may or may not work for you, anyway give it time and try not to panic or get too disgusted or disappointed and I think in time with Natures help you will have exactly what you hoped for. You can see the blue water trick during the early pics of my blog in --pond in southern Illinois -- in the photography section. anyway goodluck, Tim K.

 

[sissy]

Just remember that plants give off oxygen during the day and shade the water but at night they suck up all that oxygen so you will need to add water movement to make up for that time or an aerator .I have 2 pumps a 2150 gph and a 2900 gph and if one goes out no panic for me ever again plus I have 2 small pumps one in each of my stock tanks .It can be mighty scarey when one pump goes out and you don't have back up ,I know I have been there .Too many people give up if it is not easy or there is no magical cure for green water or clear water .It takes work at first and when feel like giving up don't, one morning you will wake up and everything is perfect and then you can smile and say I hung in there and did it

 

[slakker]

I like the hardscaping of the pond and surrounding area... And I'm a proponent on using a water plants to be a big part of the natural filtration. It also help provide shade to a full sun pond by using floating plants and lilies.

 

[Waterbug]

Algaecide worked once to clear it up

Different kinds work for different lengths of time. Without knowing the kind I can say in general these have to keep being applied because algae will just continue to grow.

but then we seemed to have parasites (we're treating the fish now)

Because you don't say which species of parasites I'm going to guess someone gave you some bad info. Fish aren't treated for parasites, they're treated for a specific parasite since different types require different treatments.

Algaecides, and again I don't know what you're using, but because it worked I assume it's a true algaecide, are toxic to fish. The package will of course say "fish safe" or something but if you read the MSDS you'll see something different. The deal is if you use the correct dose, your fish are healthy, pond as good O2 and a few other things the algaecide won't kill your fish outright. It's like if you sit in a running car in a closed garage is "safe" IF you don't stay there too long. And by "safe" I mean you won't die, maybe some brain damage, but alive and "safe".

Most parasite medications are also toxic to fish...same deal, used as directed, water conditions are good, few other things and the fish pull thru. Combine algaecide and parasite medication together in a short time...not really too good. There can also be chemical interactions.

Also, it's extremely rare for an inexperienced pond keeper to treat fish for parasites and have any effect. Most people buy something, dump it in and consider that treatment. Parasites laugh at that. It's pretty complex. Proper id of the bug, proper medication, proper dose.

but our pH is ridiculously high at 8.5

Stable 8.5 is perfect. Many experienced fish keepers aim for that number.

so we were afraid that might be what is iritating the fish

8.5 pH isn't the absolute perfect optimal level, but they can deal with it. It's like saying humans require 72F and 76F is "ridiculously high". Yeah, we might choose 72F over 76F, but we can deal.

we have a low level of amonia which we know can be amplified by high pH.

That's pretty cool you know about higher pH making ammonia more toxic. Most experienced pond keepers don't even know that one.

Algae consume ammonia directly to reproduce. Acts as a bio filter. Kill algae and there's no one to consume the ammonia. After the ammonia will come nitrite which is even more toxic. Combine algaecide, parasite medication and ammonia, bad day to be a fish.

We're hoping that if we incorporate more shade and some plants pH and water quality will improve over all, but boy does it get frustrating.....!!!!!

Always good to have hope...but science isn't on your side. Shade can reduce algae grow, but not enough by a long, long, long way that anyone would ever consider water "clear". That's where the myth comes from. Algae needs light right? So less light and the algae dies...nope. You might can a lime green pond instead of a forest green, but sure not clear.

Plants will starve the algae to death...nope. Not in a million billion years. Alage is way better at this. If this was even remotely possible the algae would starve the plants.

Naturally non-green water is something that isn't completely understood. We do know that water from a clear pond is actually toxic to suspended algae. It's killed on contact. But strength of the toxicity is limited. There are several theories about what in the water causes this. One person's theory is from a bacteria. My theory is it's from another algae, like string algae. It is very common in the plant world to fight each other with chemicals.

Normal pond range pH has no effect on algae.

Good "water quality" is green water. Fish love it, good cover, shade, part of food cycle, no ammonia.

Besides all of that fun, we ended up draining the whole pond for fear of parasites, and scrubbed & dried everything.

For many parasites that will reduce the population but not eliminate. They'll bounce right back.

We refilled the pond and have given it about a week to cycle through the filter with bio-boost, water conditioner, etc.

They must love you at the pond store.

Bio boost, because bacteria can't reproduce fast?

A few days after we refilled it, a strange white-ish residue started developing over all the underwater surfaces; the tubing at the bottom, the pond liner sides and bottom, and the pump surface. When you touch it can be wiped off easily, but dissolves completely in the water once rubbed off, so you can't even get a closer look at the color or quality. It feels powdery, and a little grainy when you wipe it off. I can't find any reference to what it might be!

Precipitated chemicals. As you add more and more chemicals into a pond you get more and more chemistry experiment type results.

I'm tempted to just fill the thing in with dirt.............................. -_- Any clues?

Stop trying to save your fish...your going to kill them one of these times.

If you don't want green water buy a UV filter. Only thing that's 100% effective when installed correctly and also fish safe. Actually safe, like won't hurt them at all.

Learn about pH buffering. Tons of stuff, pretty simple.

Test for ammonia and nitrite during startup, like the first 2 months at least. Understand it and deal with it as needed, but don't freak out either. Freaking out kills fish. They can deal with some ammonia. Learn what that level is so you can get thru the initial spike.

Don't trust anything you hear or read. People hear crap and repeat it as much as possible like they understand what they're talking about. Research and verify before doing or don't do it. Fish can handle a lot of stuff.

That's 98% of good pond keeping. It's way, way less complex than you're making it.

 

[newpondguy]

I am new at this but our local pond guy said the more plants you have in your pond the less likely it is for the algae to grow since the plants will clear it up and keep it clear.