Goldfish Disease - Advice please

[skirmish]

Hi there

I've just joined the forum and I'm hoping someone can offer me some advice please.
I have a raised pond holding 220 gallons and with a mix of goldfish, shubunkins, two small ghost koi and some orfs.
I've just noticed that three of the fish have some disease on their heads. I've immediately isolated them but could do with trying to find out what the disease is so I can hopefully treat it.

Any advice, suggestions would therefore be gratefully appreciated.
Thanks
David

 

[HARO]

In the case of the orfe, that seems to be the natural colouration under the skin. The goldfish, however, have ulcers that need to be sterilized, and a protective coating applied. For the one, it may be best to euthanize him.
John

 

[bettasngoldfish]

I would also recommend checking your water quality in your pond. It is likely that these ulcers started due to poor water quality.

Personally I would treat these fish with antibiotics (oral being first choice and if they are not eating then antibiotics in the water) Water quality should then be monitored and water changes accordingly.

 

[j.w]

David
I can't be of any help but sorry you are having to deal w/this problem w/ your fish and hope you will be able to help them.

 

[Dave 54]

Hi Dave welcome t the forum from Plmouth UK we are a sort of multi national bunch here on the forum
How heavily stocked is your 220 gallon pond please how many of each fish mentioned by you do you have?
Firstly can you tell us your water perameters please Ammonia, Nitrite Nitrate, Ph, Kh what maintenance you do on your pond water changes filtermaintenance etc
Sadly its easy to jump to conclusions that these are ulcers and are caused by bad water conditions, but this could even be a very bad case of sunburn (yes fish can get sunburn) .
However in our 27 years of koi keeping Val and I have only ever come across wounds in the place that they are, once and that was in our friend Kev's tropical fish tank.
But what in our veiw this most probably is does effect coldwater fishes as well as tropical and marine fish.
Weve a feeling that what we are looking at is called HLLE or Head and Lateral Line Erosion commonly know in laymans terms as Hole in the Head disease, from what I can remember about it from my friends outbreak is this, It's a little know disease which the experts say the causes of remain unlear but infection by a flagellate protozaons Hexamita or Spironucleus have been thought of as a cause.
Bacterial infection, over crowding, poor water conditions unhygenic conditions , low oxygen levels in the pond ,inadiquate Nutrition , could well be a factor in your outbreak so dont be offened we all have to learn sometimes the hard way .
What to do First off we need your water perameters and to set about fixing things if they are a mess.
Next you need to get airstones into the pond, to add oxygen into the water thus getting rid of any low oxygen conditions you may have ( I doubt you have a drop kit to tell us what they levels are perchance)?
You need throw away the food you have now and buy new, pellet form is better than that of flake food (keep in a sealed container and mark the best before date on the container (do not use after that date) try soaking the pellets in orange juice to give them vitamin C from time to time. or like us put a half an orange in the pond , our own koi make very short work of a half an orange when we offer it to them
Feed your fish Medicated food if your from the UK the only source of this is from vets or NTLabs medicated koi food,
There are a few drugs you could use but these are only available from the vet they are dimetridazole and metronidazole they will need several applications of the drug ask a vet to help you with this (sadly its going to cost you )..
The only way to avoid this disease in future is to Quarentine your fish in a QT fasility for around 2 months , and to illiminate any of the factors I mention in this post .
They do respond quite well to treatment, please keep us all posted on how you get on as I know everyone wishes to see your fish cured

Dave

Note:-" I'm not suggesting you dont know anything about fish keeping" but Kev was a youngster who didnt have a clue about fish keeping who tried to run before he could walk and the reason why he had his outbreak, so I strongly suggest you buy a book on fish health and take its contents to your heart if you dont wish a repeat please see our list of books from our library these books are available quite cheaply on Amazon books :-

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/threads/our-fish-koi-health-library-with-reviews-of-each-book.10498/

Also read our thread about vitamins it will help you in the future :-

https://www.gardenpondforum.com/thr...ects-on-our-koi-and-the-answer-to-this.11001/

 

[bettasngoldfish]

If it is hole in the head (hexamita) you can also buy a medicated food called metro meds from goldfish connection (if you are in the US) http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php?productId=9&parentId=5&catId=5

 

[Dave 54]

If it is hole in the head (hexamita) you can also buy a medicated food called metro meds from goldfish connection (if you are in the US) http://www.goldfishconnection.com/shop/details.php?productId=9&parentId=5&catId=5

Thanx for the imput there Maria hopefully Dave is from your side of the pomd and can save a heck of alott of money by buying it great link by the way
I just wish we had this sort of access here in the UK it would save us going to the vet for the drugs

Dave

 

[Mmathis]

Welcome, but sorry you're here because of sick fish! This is outside of my comfort zone, but it looks like you are getting some advice -- I hope it helps your fish.

 

[skirmish]

Thanks everyone for your replies. They're very much appreciated.

Firstly I'm very much in the UK, Holmfirth, W Yorkshire to be precise.

I'm not a total pond novice as I had a traditional sunken pond at my last house for 9 years and that seemed to stay pretty healthy.

We inherited another sunken pond and our new house but it was well out of the way and I decided to make a sleeper raised pond. Photo attached but bear in mind this was before any fish or plants were added.

It's stocked with 2 small ghost koi, 4 orfe, 3 shubunkin and 7 goldfish. Got two lilies, a huge mad plant (dont know the name) and lots of oxygenating plants at the bottom of the pond. The pump/filter is an all in one Hozelock Easyclear 3000.

Interesting that you mention flake food. I used to feed them on Nishikoi pellets but when they ran out my wife came back from the garden centre with Nishikoi flakes. The fish seemed to enjoy them and they were easier for the smaller fish to eat so I thought it would be fine. Now I think about it the problem could well have started since the change in food.

The ph level is 7.3 and I've no idea bout the other parameters.

I clean the filter foam fairly regularly. I also do a 'sweep' when needed of the pond bottom with my net to clean up debris.
I was to be honest maybe I haven't been removing and topping up with new water as often as i should, This is due to not having a supply of 'natural' water out of a butt like I used to. Any new water unfortunately has to come from the tap.

I should stress that the fish I have are quite small and there does seem to be plenty of space/water for them.

 

[Dave 54]

Could you gou out and buy an API pond test kit Dave they cost about £30.00 but for the peace of mind they give you knowing your water is in tip top condition is a big plus .
We have to concenetrate on you getting these fish back to full health , can you seperate them off into a fish tank or some other filtered container .
Try the medicated food and see how things go, but you in reality need either of the two drugs mentioned , personally I wouldnt use rain water you simply dont know what pollutants rain has in it..


Dave

 

[CometKeith]

Welcome to gpf skirmish! I can't really add much more than what Dave 54 said. He gave you great advice, but just in terms of how much bio-load a 220 gallon pond can hold it seems like you have way too many fish. Especially as your koi get larger you will have big problems. I like to think of surface area as a better indicator of how much fish a pond can hold because gas exchange at the surface is so important. For medium size fish 3-6 inches and decent water movement a pond can hold 1 inch of fish per square foot of surface area. Of course there are lots of other factors but it gives some idea in general what makes sense. My pond is 67 sq ft so I try not to have more than 67 inches of fish.Since they are always growing it can present a challenge!

 

[Dave 54]

Any joy getting the right medication for your fish yet Dave , the quicker you get them sorted the less worry you'll have about them , as CometKieth saays koi are very fast at growing up , so it may be an idea that in the spring you think about scrapping your two smaller ponds and insttead plumb for a liner and a 1,000 plus gallons .
It will mean larger filters perhaps a bottom drain too but when iys finished you'll be glad you did it .

Dave

 

[skirmish]

Afraid I've been really busy with things the last day or so. Now the weekend is here I'll look into the fish problem and see what medication I can find/buy. I'm also going to do a gradual water change in the pond too which should hopefully rectify any imbalance there is.

 

[Dave 54]

Afraid I've been really busy with things the last day or so. Now the weekend is here I'll look into the fish problem and see what medication I can find/buy. I'm also going to do a gradual water change in the pond too which should hopefully rectify any imbalance there is.

Dont forget to get the API pond test kit Dave once weve got a hold of this infection which shouldnt take too long with the right drugs your in the clear mate

Dave

 

[skirmish]

Can you suggest exactly which API kit as I've looked online and there seem to be many different versions? What exactly do I need to be testing?