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Message: [QUOTE="Lisak1, post: 282133, member: 6145"] Yup - it's generally 5 or 6 degrees warmer but once I got a ten degree spread. Less water volume overall plus shallower pools both contribute to that I would guess. My pondless is warmer than my patio pond as well, even though that's only 35 or so gallons, but it's shaded for all but a few early morning hours. These are all surface level temperature readings with a floating thermometer. The pondless is basically all surface though, so I guess that might be obvious! [/QUOTE]