Filter-Skimmer-Pump Set Up Question - Comments Please!

[Patrick]

Great forum! Have already gotten a ton of useful insight here.

I have a couple of hopefully not too dumb questions regarding my proposed small pond setup.

First quick background:

have a small 9 x 3.5 x 2.5 pond which will, once the pond settles down, be the home to gold fsh only. I live in MD, the pond gets about 2 hours of direct sun per day in warm months. I'm digging now and plan on burying tubing, electrical and putting in an EPDM liner in the next two weeks.

Here's what I think I want to do in setting up the skimmer/filtering of this pond:

(1) At the opposite end of the pond from a to be built small falls I plan to locate a mini in pond box skimmer with 1" outflow attached directly adjacent (via 6" hose) to

(2) the 1" sludge clean out of an also equally below water line Biosteps 10 gravity filter (i.e. NOT attached via the normal inflow which is located high and directly in line with the UV but rather directly below this and the UV) with water exiting from the normal gravity exit, but rather than by way of gravity, actually being PULLED by

(3) a 350-1150 variable flow submersible pump located 9 feet away via buried below water line 1" corrugated tubing entering the bottom 1/5 of a below water line 5 gallon bucket in which additional media (nylon scouring pads) surround the socked pump and from which

(4) water is then pumped 2.5 feet vertically and an additional 2.5 feet horizontally to a waterfall box for spillover into the pond completing the cycle.

The only time the tubing comes above water level is to make the 2.5 vertical and 2.5 horizontal to the falls.

1. Will this put too much stress on the pump?
2. Will the pump located in this manner pull sufficiently to have both the skimmer and filter work?
3. Any other problems/dangers of this setup and associated suggestions for fixes?

If it works, the buried bucket with the pump will have a water plant planter sitting in it as it's lid and the skimmer and Biosteps 10 would have a small wood dock/sitting & standing platform built over them with a lift ring that can be pulled to lift a cutout in the platform for filter/skimmer access.

Any guidance/insight/constructive critique would be greatly appreciated!

Patrick

 

[fishin4cars]

please post a introduction

 

[sissy]

With that length you may not have enough flow from that small a pump to go that high .I have a 1268 gph and it goes only 3 feet to go up and another 3 feet to the filter and it goes up about 2 feet and I have only 2 spitters on it besides .

 

[Patrick]

Even though filter, skimmer feed lines and all the other lines are all below water level until the last bit of horizontal and vertical feet? Bummer. I thought that would have helped.

 

[taherrmann4]

Someone a few weeks ago posted a really good calculator or spreadsheet on head pressure that would really help you out. If I can think of which thread it was in I will post.

 

[sissy]

If you look at pumps they tell you how much flow you loose to length and height of flow .I think they have it here in the construction forum

 

[sissy]

Someone a few weeks ago posted a really good calculator or spreadsheet on head pressure that would really help you out. If I can think of which thread it was in I will post.

oh no you getting water logged too I saw it also but cannot remember either :lol:

 

[addy1]

this is prob not the same one but it works

http://www.pondliner.com/product/head_pressure/topics

they should sticky a list of some of the good links would save us all a lot of headache.

 

[Patrick]

Thanks all. Per what I can plug in from my setup, my pump is pulling water for 9 feet through a filter and a skimmer and then pushing horizontally for 3 and vertically for another 3 (rounded up from my 2.5 each). If I enter 12 for pipe run (9+3) and 3 for vert and throw in three fittings (not sure what this means but will assume one for each skimmer, filter and pump), the calculator says 7.2 head pressure and my pump has a max height of 9 feet. However I don't think the calc works for my set up b/c the calc assumes the pump is in the pond and simply pulling water to the falls/gravity filter box. Sigh.

 

[KennethO]

Even if it's below the water you still have to take into account the friction loss from the length and any elbows. Elbows really drop the flow if they are not sweeping.
I saw a friction calculator somewhere. I'll try to find it and post the link, but it's pretty long.

If all else fails then just get another and use your current one for circulation or fountains. But most pumps start to drop flow quickly after about 3-5 feet of head. If you do end up calculating 7ft, your very close to the zero flow mark.

 

[KennethO]

Heres the link. Great info on plumbing your pond and getting the most out of it.
http://www.koiphen.com/members/harveythekoi/plumbing.pdf

 

[addy1]

thanks for finding it kennetho

do you already have your pump? I went with external to be able to pull it for our winter. Low electric use. mine pulls either from the skimmer, the bottom or both dependent on how I have the ball valves set.

 

[KennethO]

O yeah, looking at Addy's name reminded me. You could also go the rout of using a 3 way valve like she did. Forgot the name, but she will pop in and post it I'm sure.

I wonder if that would help the flow since each line would only flow threw one thing. Verses the water having to flow threw everything at once.

 

[addy1]

Jandy for swimming pools,

http://www.google.com/products/cata...a=X&ei=U5URTqHxKLKnsQKk6Ii0Cg&ved=0CGIQ8wIwBA

here are some others

http://www.poolcenter.com/plumbing_valves_poolstor.htm

 

[Patrick]

The plumbing article is really good. KennethO. Now realize that the pump is not pulling water from the pond through the skimmer and filter but rather moving water via gravity to replace water being taken from the pump bucket for the waterfall (i.e. as the writer says, water finding its own level through gravity).

Too, learned a lot about where I can improve matters. I was going to use 1" corrugated piping since the outflow cutouts for the skimmer and filter max at 1". Bumping that up might help remove some of the friction resistance. Still not clear however on whether anything other than friction (minimized by the lack of joints - 5 I think with zero elbows in the line given use of corrugated tubing) has any effect on head given that the pump is only fighting gravity - i.e. pushing water for 2.5 horiz and 2.5 vertical.

Will also definitely add a cutoff valve on both the inlet and outlet sides of the filter bucket (for controlling back flow/over flow when the pump is shut down and pulled for winter) and a bypass between the skimmer and filter for cleaning out the filter while the skimmer and pump are still in operation. Will also consider, as suggested, putting in a three-way valve between the skimmer and filter so that water is "drawn" from each separately as opposed to one the skimmer through the filter.

Thanks for all the info/food for though folks!