DC pump and filter build

[Mike H]

Still looking for recommendations on a durable DC water circulation pump in the 300gph range.
Also need ideas for first,removing particulates and then biological while using gravity flow to move the water.
(I'd like the return pump in the last section of the filter)
My pond is constructed of cinder block and I'd like to set up the filter next to it,but below the water line.

 

[peter hillman]

http://www.ebay.com/itm/DC12V-24V-S...hash=item46447cecda:m:mKK69gw0pZ-Q5C3ROJMWlog

http://www.ebay.com/itm/Jebao-DC-20...455725?hash=item20fa218aed:g:QJQAAOSwgQ9ViRlP

 

[Meyer Jordan]

(I'd like the return pump in the last section of the filter)

This is not really a workable configuration. Pumps are designed to push water, not to pull it. By placing the pump in the final stage of filtration, it is being set up to experience very frequent cavitation due to flow through the filter being reduced as filter media clogs. The use of a pump with a very low flow rating would work, but the desired pond turn-over rate of 1.5 - 2 times/hour would be far from realized. This, in turn, would lead to water quality issues.

 

[crsublette]

Also need ideas for first,removing particulates and then biological while using gravity flow to move the water.
(I'd like the return pump in the last section of the filter)
My pond is constructed of cinder block and I'd like to set up the filter next to it,but below the water line.

The easiest route would be to have your pump initiate the move of water into a plant container (prior to your pump), which is fed by a bottom drain in your pond... I might need to draw a flow chart to better describe this, give a yell if you want me to...

basically goes... 1) Pond's drain sucking solids/old water to go to --> 2) Plant container gravity flows to --> 3) pump tank moves water to pond.... I think the PDF below will explain this better...

The plant container would act as a settlement chamber and the fast growing plants you put in there will provide the area needed for your biological concerns. Place a low rated aerator to give enough oxygenation in the plant container for the microbiology yet not high enough air to significantly interrupt sedimentation of particulates. A stream helps with sedimentation and biological filtration as well..

Yep, that's one of the very common design used in gravity flow systems... basically, using the pump in the last section to initiate the gravity flow... this pdf http://www.koiphen.com/members/harveythekoi/plumbing.pdf at around page 28 explains what you are trying to achieve... this also allows better energy efficiency from a pump depending on how you design everything.


if you want to get more complicated... in context of particulate filtering... in this design... best to not use positive pressure driven filters (such as the pressurized mat one's you commonly see in pond stores)... you can use an open container full of mats, but be mindful on how you construct it so that the pump at the final section does not run dry.

if you want to get more complicated... for biological filter... you might look into submerged filters or, if ok to place the filter after your pump, wet/dry bio-filter device such as a trickle tower ...


You have asked a very open ended request that leaves too many open doors... You just need to do your homework on this... when you have a more specific or direct question, then this will be easier to address...

There is so much I would like to share, but this would take me a long time... I am working on getting all of my material organized so hopefully I can just give quite concise references of examples of what I think is applicable to your context...

You might consider the easy route mentioned in the first paragraph above.

Hope this helped!

 

[crsublette]

Oh yeah, and once you have everything going... start with only 1 or 2 fish since sounds like this will be a quite small pond... do NOT feed your fish much at all... just very little every day... feeding the fish too quick from day one after installing everything can quickly cause water chemistry things to go bad quick which means you might have to do other "stuff"... ...you can do what is called a "fish less" cycle, which, if you are interested in it, do some searching about it on this forum will help ya out...

Good luck!

 

[Mike H]

Oh yeah, and once you have everything going... start with only 1 or 2 fish since sounds like this will be a quite small pond... do NOT feed your fish much at all... just very little every day... feeding the fish too quick from day one after installing everything can quickly cause water chemistry things to go bad quick which means you might have to do other "stuff"... ...you can do what is called a "fish less" cycle, which, if you are interested in it, do some searching about it on this forum will help ya out...

Good luck!

Ok

Oh yeah, and once you have everything going... start with only 1 or 2 fish since sounds like this will be a quite small pond... do NOT feed your fish much at all... just very little every day... feeding the fish too quick from day one after installing everything can quickly cause water chemistry things to go bad quick which means you might have to do other "stuff"... ...you can do what is called a "fish less" cycle, which, if you are interested in it, do some searching about it on this forum will help ya out...

Good luck!

ok,wow Thank you for the input!
Actually,the pond has all of the plants and fish back in it from the old rigid plastic pond that failed.
It is just sitting there without a pump.
The fish are doing their winter thing as the temps have not come out of the thirties.
I need to circulate the water at least a little don't I?
There is a plastic barrel next to the pond now that has skimmer overflow feeding it and a return plumbed into the side wall of the pond. (Not really a filter)
We are not feeding the fish at all.
We had to put a permanent screen over the pond because our largest goldfish had teeth marks on his dorsal fin area and most of our original fish disappeared.
The few babies that survived from last year appear to be fine.

 

[crsublette]

I need to circulate the water at least a little don't I?

Definitely. Water circulation ensures a uniformity of water quality and makes sure all of the gases expel out of the water. Healthy water circulation should always be done. For a smaller pond, you might need even more so since smaller ponds tend to be more volatile due to the smaller mass of water and less dilution of pollutants.

Now, during the winter, don't do this water circulation through a stream or an above ground fountain (if you have one or run this during winter), since this extra exposure to air can really cause, in such a small pond like yours, some "not good for fish" temperature swings. During the summer, the streams and fountains actually help to keep the small pond cooler.

Aeration is entirely unnecessary during winter since cold water holds more than enough oxygen. Simply stirring the water good will maintain your oxygen during Winter, assuming it is not completely iced over (which I don't think it would be in a 8.5 zone).


Main problem with small ponds is the volatility in water temperature and lack of dilution of pollution. Healthy water circulation and more plants will help the small pond be less volatile.

 

[crsublette]

What is considered "healthy water circulation"? ... as long as your fish are not getting tossed around by the water currents and do not get caught into the pump's suction... then you're good...


My small pond (9 foot diameter, 11~14 inches deep) is really more of a rock water feature pond with fish and occasional plants. My small pond is about 450 gallons and I am pushing 9000gph.... 7000gph for my stream so that I can have a really good looking deep rush of water... 2000gph for several fountains and 8 gentle water jets in the pond. I spend about $130 a month on electricity for pumping, but everything looks frick'n awesome and I am trying to make the backyard into my vacation paradise rather than going out; so, I figure $130 a month is acceptable compared to what I would spend by going on an actual paradise vacation.

I have 4x 1.5 inch suction intakes at various points of the pond, which reduces suction at the inlet to nearly zero, and, each suction intake uses an Anti-Fish Entrapment device (https://pondevolution.com/index.php/anti-fish-entrapment-device-3.html).

The 8x 3/4 inch water jets are very gentle... when putting your hand to feel it, they feel like the powerhead water current jets used on aquariums.... And these are angled 5 inches away from my pond walls so to further reduce water turbulence yet still create enough water movement to circulate the pond water.

This is TREMENDOUS over kill for you, but I am just trying to give you an idea that all depends on how you design...


At bare minimum... I think you need to at least circulate the water in your pond at a rate of 2 times per hour... So, if your pond is 300 gallons, then use a pump that gives 600gph (after fiction loss); so, for a small pond and with little friction loss, a 800gph might do the trick... depending on what the curve on the pump's flow chart states... All pumps come with a flow chart...

Some say only 1 times per hour... others say more... so depends on who you ask and what you are trying to achieve.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

Now, during the winter, don't do this water circulation through a stream or an above ground fountain (if you have one or run this during winter), since this extra exposure to air can really cause, in such a small pond like yours, some "not good for fish" temperature swings.

This hardly applies in Zone 8b. I am in the same Zone (Florida) and streams and waterfalls are never shut down. Water temperatures rarely drop below 60F so wide swings are not experienced.

 

[Mike H]

Still looking for recommendations on a durable DC water circulation pump in the 300gph range.
Also need ideas for first,removing particulates and then biological while using gravity flow to move the water.
(I'd like the return pump in the last section of the filter)
My pond is constructed of cinder block and I'd like to set up the filter next to it,but below the water line.

OK, so I found a suitable pump and it is performing beautifully.
However, the only filtration that I am providing is a sponge pre-filter to protect the pump.
The sump and the pond are beginning to collect larger chunks of debris on the bottom and the water is crystal clear.
However, the kids want two larger koi in addition to the goldfish and I want to have some bio filtration in place first to handle the larger fish.
The pond is a simple, square box that is 4'x4'x2.5'deep.
The sump, right now is a plastic barrel that holds approx. 30 gal.

 

[Meyer Jordan]

This (4' x 4') configuration would be confining for Koi. I would recommend staying with Goldfish.

 

[Mike H]

Starting with construction of radial flow filter that will gravity flow from pond and will gravity flow via top skimmer into a particulate filter atop a bio filter constructed of bonded filter pad.
Under the bio filter will be the intake for the return pump.

 

[crsublette]

Starting with construction of radial flow filter that will gravity flow from pond and will gravity flow via top skimmer into a particulate filter atop a bio filter constructed of bonded filter pad.
Under the bio filter will be the intake for the return pump.

Sounds good, but there is a potential failure point with the pump's intake below the bonded filter pad bio-filter. As the filter pads accumulate particulates, attaching to the pad's bio-film, then this could reduce water flow through pads thus reduce water flow to the pump's intake and significantly increasing suction pressure on the pump causing cavitation. This potential failure point could also be removed by ensuring there is a gap along the sidewalls to allow enough water to pass the pads or simply sitting the pads vertically in the container ensuring there is a gap between the pads.

This is why I suggested a container for just the pump's intake. Also, by watching the water level in this container, you can easily determine when/if your pads need a quick rinse due to them getting clogged.

If not using a submersible pump, this container can easily be a 4 inch pvc pipe. Simply have your pad container connect, at the bottom of this pad container, to the vertical piece of 4 inch pvc pipe. Then, have your pump's intake attached to the bottom or side of this 4 inche pvc pipe. Be sure the 4 inch pipe is tall enough to be above the pond water level so that it does not overflow. During normal operations, the water level in the pipe will be the same as in the pad bio-filter. As the pad bio-filter gets clogged, the water level in the 4 inch pvc pipe will slowly go down.

If you wish... I can do some drawings to demonstrate what I am talking about... Give a yell how it works out for ya.

 

[Mike H]

Sounds good, but there is a potential failure point with the pump's intake below the bonded filter pad bio-filter. As the filter pads accumulate particulates, attaching to the pad's bio-film, then this could reduce water flow through pads thus reduce water flow to the pump's intake and significantly increasing suction pressure on the pump causing cavitation. This potential failure point could also be removed by ensuring there is a gap along the sidewalls to allow enough water to pass the pads or simply sitting the pads vertically in the container ensuring there is a gap between the pads.

This is why I suggested a container for just the pump's intake. Also, by watching the water level in this container, you can easily determine when/if your pads need a quick rinse due to them getting clogged.

If not using a submersible pump, this container can easily be a 4 inch pvc pipe. Simply have your pad container connect, at the bottom of this pad container, to the vertical piece of 4 inch pvc pipe. Then, have your pump's intake attached to the bottom or side of this 4 inche pvc pipe. Be sure the 4 inch pipe is tall enough to be above the pond water level so that it does not overflow. During normal operations, the water level in the pipe will be the same as in the pad bio-filter. As the pad bio-filter gets clogged, the water level in the 4 inch pvc pipe will slowly go down.

If you wish... I can do some drawings to demonstrate what I am talking about... Give a yell how it works out for ya.

I was considering using the bonded filter pad in a large, vertical cylinder inside the pump sump with the mechanical filer on top.
If the pad clogs, the water would overflow the cylinder after the mechanical filter and go directly to the pump

 

[Mike H]

My parts should have been delivered and I should be able to continue building tomorrow