Could this be carp pox !!

[Willo]

Manage to catch my fish at last got a few issues.......
1st pics are what look like whitish-clear lumps on the tail and start of the body. Looking in my books this looks like carp pox ?? there’s no lumps anywhere else only tail end of the fish. Fish is eating ok and has lots of energy (took ages to catch it).
Anyone got any ideas ??
Other pics are of the mouth on another koi, i dont know if it’s been banged or if it’s an infection, books say it could be mouth rot ??? there’s a sml what looks like a lump on the top lip and bottom lip looks swollen and its feels rough to touch it ?? Again fish feeding ok and swimming no probs ?? I was just going to coat it in propolis ??
Any ideas thanks

 

[callingcolleen1]

My thought is he bit something nasty like a wasp floating on the water and then the sting made him go "mental" and then he swam around freaked out and fast, banging his tail in the process. I think he should recover and you should avoid catching him and banging him further. The stress of catching him combined with his injuries can damage him further...

 

[Willo]

Ive been to my local koi shop and showed him the pics he thinks that it is carp pox and it wont harm the koi ?. And he thinks the other koi has banged its self because of the redness around the mouth.
He recomended i do a anti fungus & bacteria treatment it will help with the mouth issues and kill other bugs as well.

 

[sissy]

I added the slime coat stress stuff when I was redoing my pond so they would be safe and sound in the handling and stress they went through .I added the 1 that says + on it because it has aloe in it

 

[bettasngoldfish]

With the redness in the tail the first thing I would check is water quality. Ammonia or nitrite can cause this to happen.

 

[Willo]

Ive done a water check everything ok

 

[Dave 54]

Whats the temperature of your water at the moment Willo because yes this is definately koi pox , I think your dealer is wrong on the damage to the mouth and suspect it to be part of the same virus .
We had one like this many years ago where the carp pox took over it's mouth rendering the koi unable to eat , its not very often you see this be aware however Willo that it can completely take over the mouth if it remains unchecked by the koi's body's immune system .
Sadly it was no longer able too eat so we euthanized it
However what are all the bloody red areas Willo you've not tried to remove any of it or is that due to bad netting of the koi leading to stress by it being caught if so you have the wrong net for the job ?

Dave

 

[Willo]

I guess you mean water temp at night ? I'll have a look tonight. The red areas were already there before I netted it that's why I wanted to catch it to have a look. Ive started a 5 day Course of anti fungus & bacteria which treats fin rot, mouth rot & fungus. Fish is swimming ok ive seen it eatin algea of the sides, I'll keep a good eye on it.

 

[Dave 54]

I guess you mean water temp at night ? I'll have a look tonight. The red areas were already there before I netted it that's why I wanted to catch it to have a look. Ive started a 5 day Course of anti fungus & bacteria which treats fin rot, mouth rot & fungus. Fish is swimming ok ive seen it eatin algea of the sides, I'll keep a good eye on it.

If the mouth area is as I think it is Willo then its carp pox and your not going to be able to treat it .
The thing that makes me think it is is if you look on the top lip in the three mouth shots you posted you'll see what looks to be the waxy growth we see in koi pox remember its could be to do with the immune systems response to this virus that will either cure or not .
However treat your koi by all means

Dave

 

[Dave 54]

Manage to catch my fish at last got a few issues.......
1st pics are what look like whitish-clear lumps on the tail and start of the body. Looking in my books this looks like carp pox ?? there’s no lumps anywhere else only tail end of the fish. Fish is eating ok and has lots of energy (took ages to catch it).
Anyone got any ideas ??
Other pics are of the mouth on another koi, i dont know if it’s been banged or if it’s an infection, books say it could be mouth rot ??? there’s a sml what looks like a lump on the top lip and bottom lip looks swollen and its feels rough to touch it ?? Again fish feeding ok and swimming no probs ?? I was just going to coat it in propolis ??
Any ideas thanks

Willo both Val and I have taken a long hard look at your photo's again we are thnking your koi may have an internal bacterial infction i;e indicated by the reddening of the fins .
We further think that this koi is having a bad auto immune response to the Koi pox virus causing all the growths .
Which means that the so called damage to the mouth diagnones the dealer gave you, is infact wide of the mark here.
Our reasoning you can clearly see pox both in the middle of the lower lip of your koi and also if you look to the top right hand corner of the upper jaw along with other growths (one forming over the right nostril there are other growths further up on the koi's head too) .
You can treat medicated food to combat the bacterial infection I think NTLabs do a medicated feed but the koi pox you can do little about just hope the immune response is strong enougth to beat the virus but as weve already said it my be one that gets taken over especially in the mouth .
If thats the case the outlook is bleak to say the least

Dave

 

[Willo]

Hi Dave
Thanks for the comments but the pics are of two separate fish the 1st pics of the tail are definitely carp pox. And the fish with the bad mouth when I caught it I check it over and didnt see any other problems, defo no carp pox. If is an infection hopefully the anti fungus & bacteria treatment im doing will help. I am feeding Quenti koi japan mix at the moment which has prebiotics & probiotics and ive been adding propolis to this food as well. The fish seems to be feeding ok it ate quite a bit of food tonight, well it was happy till I added the treatment and turned the water a lovely shade of green
Cheers Dave & Val

 

[Dave 54]

M'mmm first time I've used photo shop anyways if you look at the circled areas Willo you will see that there is evidence of koi pox on your koi's mouth parts .
Note the upper lip thats is definately rounded and waxy in appearance koi pox can appear anywhere on the koi including the mouth
They will feel rough to the touch simply because the mouth of a koi is used to touch feel and grasp anything it thinks may be a tasty morsal to eat.
The danger is is that because of the continual grubbing grubbing the area of pox on the lower lip will start to spread and eventually end up taking over the lower part of the mouth entirely.
If this were an infection dont you think it would be showing up as bright red in colour, look at the part nearest to you that is where the pox been knocked off whilst the koi has been feeding ?
Not always but it can end up going growing into into your koi's mouth and growing into the surounding tissue thus becoming so large that your koi will be unable to eat anymore.
Which is exactly what happened to one of our own many moons ago, so as such Willo this isn't a wild guess its more from personal experiance of one of our koi coming down with this.
Others end up with massive growths that are rather unsightly but are still able to eat, now the interesting thing about these type growths is they take on the colouration of the surrounding area which is what your seeing with the bottom lip.....
May I ask why your going back to the Queni Japanese mix when you were feeding Wheatgerm and Garlic ?


Dave

Do you have the Interpet Manual of Fish Health by Dr Chris Andrews Adrian Exell and Dr Neville Carrrington ISBN 1842860674 , if so go to page 117

 

[Willo]

Hi Dave
Ok I see what your saying, my poor fish I'll have to keep a good eye on it. And if it gets to bad...... he'll go to the big pond in the sky.
Ive not started feeding wheat germ & garlic yet only bought some last week.
Ive got the Interpet Manual of koi Health by Keith Holmes & Tony Pitman its a good book.
Thanks for your advice Dave

 

[Dave 54]

Hi Dave
Ok I see what your saying, my poor fish I'll have to keep a good eye on it. And if it gets to bad...... he'll go to the big pond in the sky.
Ive not started feeding wheat germ & garlic yet only bought some last week.
Ive got the Interpet Manual of koi Health by Keith Holmes & Tony Pitman its a good book.
Thanks for your advice Dave

Great news Willo , why not buy others over time
However dont be like Val and I in your reading and collecting as our Library is bursting at the seams so to say
I had a brilliant book arrive today called IFish Deases an Introduction ISBN 9788791319433 by K Buchmann though not about koi it dos cover all the diseases that afflict them .
I'd keep a good eye on this koi Willo especially over this winter hopefully the virus will abate, we might get lucky who knows .

Dave

 

[Dave 54]

Hi Dave
Ok I see what your saying, my poor fish I'll have to keep a good eye on it. And if it gets to bad...... he'll go to the big pond in the sky.
Ive not started feeding wheat germ & garlic yet only bought some last week.
Ive got the Interpet Manual of koi Health by Keith Holmes & Tony Pitman its a good book.
Thanks for your advice Dave

Willo it gets worse I'm affraid , and your going to have to be the expert on hand to tell me what is happening if this growth continues .
What we are looking for is any blood coming from the deformaty on the lower lip .
If this starts to happen then its a whole new kettle of fish pardon the pun, as a blood supply will indicate that this is a tumor and sadly it will take over the whole of the lower lip .
I've just been talking to a dear friend about your problem who runs the only goldfish and koi rescue service currently here in the UK , I've known her for over 4 years now and any advice she gives me I have great trust in .
Sorry to be a bearer of bad news all I can suggest is you take good care of it , and make sure that it has a comfortable life

Dave