Completely bummed!

[ntscott]

In the last two weeks I have lost all of my fish. I dont know what to attribute it to. I would assume my error. I got my pumps and waterfall back up and running shortly before the disaster. Within a couple of days I had a couple sinkers. I got them out as soon as I saw them. I tested the water. 45 degree water temp. 0 ppm ammonia. 0 nitrite. 7.2 ph. I then cleaned the muck from the filter media and replaced the old activated carbon bags with fresh ones...about 6 lbs total added to the filter barrel. A day or so later I netted up 6 more Koi. I havent fed them anything due to the low water temp. I have netted up lots of the gunk from the bottom of the pond and have been running the filter pump for 12 hours a day for the last week to help clean it up. The water looks very clean and clear. I just saw my last two adult fish at the bottom of the pond this afternoon. I think that there might be a few fry in there some where, but not sure. The fish that I pulled out had no visible issues (to my untrained eye). I dont even know what to say or what to do next. I fell in love with my pond and fish last year and now... ouch.

 

[capewind]

Do you test the KH? PH is on the lower end (mine doesnt ride a whole lot higher), so wondering if your KH was low and your PH crashed? That would explain a sudden loss of multi fish with no visible trauma...

 

[Waterbug]

In the last two weeks I have lost all of my fish. I dont know what to attribute it to. I would assume my error.

That is a bummer. I don't want to belittle your pain, I've felt it too, but in the context of moving on...

Obvious when fish die the buck always stops with us. And we should take responsibility, make the effort to learn some more and try to do better in the future. But there are limits to what we can do. This could have been a virus infection and almost nothing could be done, and of the things that could've been done none have a very high success rate. Take responsibility, but no need to beat yourself up.

There are endless details in keeping a pond. More than could ever be learned. Be careful about getting lost in the details and missing the big simple things.

For example, learn two numbers 42 and 62. Just memorize 42 and 62. When water is 42-62F do nothing. Don't feed, don't screw with the filters, don't sing to the fish, do nothing.

Yes, there are hundreds of things you could do in that temp range, and some people will say you must do this and that. And maybe they're right...given their level of knowledge and experience, not yours. If you want to get to their level you have to expect to kill a lot of fish. We learn by killing fish. Sad but true.

So keep it simple. You already know the not feeding thing at cold temps. Well the 42-62 thing works for that. Sure some people will say "oh you can start feeding at 55F", others say 60F. Endless details. Don't feed under at 62F and under and you're safe. I mean you're not growing Jumbo Koi to show I assume.

You also don't have to know that the good bacteria are basically dormant at less than 62F. Yes people will say "oh the bacteria growth rate is only reduced by 55% at 62F", endless details. 62F is an reasonable a number to remember as any other.

You also don't have to know about "aeromonas alley" and how Koi immune system is weak at low temps (say below 62F) while killer bacteria grow well at cool temps (say above 42F). You don't have to know that stirring up the water by cleaning filters or the pond can increase number of these killer bacteria just at the time the Koi can't fight them off. You don't have to know how cleaning screws with all kinds of chemicals at a time when fish are least able to fight off infection. Or how cleaning can stress fish into being scared and bumming off a scale which opens a site for infection.

Learn all the details you'd like, but in the mean time do nothing when water is 42-62F is better pond keeping imo than is done by lots of keepers with a little bit of knowledge.

Four things will cover 98% of keeping a pond:
1. Stay away when 42-62F.
2. Keep KH above 200 ppm.
3. Understand the relationship of ammonia, pH and water temp.
4. Clean before winter. If you miss that window then wait until spring and 62F.

You can still lose fish but doing those 4 simple things will greatly reduce risk. You'll be way ahead of 99% of other keepers.

One last thing for context I'm reminded of as I'm eating a fish sandwich, this is a harsh world and keeping a pond is harsh on Koi and Goldfish. When you buy a single Koi know that 100's of it's siblings were killed so you could have that single pretty Koi. Billions of that Koi's ancestors were killed so we all could have pretty Koi. It's harsh when you look behind the curtain. But if humans didn't do this there wouldn't be any Koi. Is it better none should have ever lived? Best we can do is make life as easy as we can for the lucky few we've taken responsibility.

Hope you keep at it. This is the hard part. It gets easier.

 

[Carolyn22]

Do you test the KH? PH is on the lower end (mine doesnt ride a whole lot higher), so wondering if your KH was low and your PH crashed? That would explain a sudden loss of multi fish with no visible trauma...

Unfortunately this happens, especially when we are in the beginning of having a pond and in that learning curve. As Capewind suggested, there could have been a ph crash, there also could have been an oxygen crash. I think back to all the times early on when we lost fish and I have to believe that more often than not, there was an issue with oxygen.

One question for you - did your pond freeze over at all during the winter? I know your zone is very different from mine - If you are in an area where your pond freezes over - did you have deicers in the pond?

 

[j.w]

Sorry for you and hope you can figure out what perhaps the cause of it was so there isn't a repeat of this happening again. Would be good to start w/ just a couple small fish and take it slow and easy.

 

[jupiter1]

ntscott,

Been there , done that . Losses are never easy to deal with reguardless of how many times you have been there , done that . Many of have us have delt with your type of loss early on. Some give up at that point .Some pick them selfs up by their boot straps , learn from their mistakes and carry on.

You said you fell in love with your pond and fish .Well than don't give up , think it through , learn from your mistakes , carry on . People here will help you . Once you get things moving in the right direction ponding and the bond that develops with your fish will give you a life time of enjoyment . Don't let present failures keep you from future enjoyment .

Pond on my freinds .

 

[sissy]

yep pick your self up and dry the pond water off and try to find out what happened before you get new fish .If you sit and think about it you may find out what happened .Do you have a submerged pump that could be faulty and shocking your fish .I would filter ,filter and filter the water as much as you can .Add quilt batting and really filter it .Could something have happened like a neighbor using weed killer or bug spray and it got wind blown into your pond .

 

[Waterbug]

I think we could come up with a list of well over 100 different things that can kill fish and then a combination of those things would create 1000's of possibility. And a keeper could throw a dart at the list, pick one, and focus on that problem. Or they could read all the choices and use their knowledge and experience with these 100's of things, which means the same as throwing a dart, or talking ourselves into thinking "wow, that one sounds right".

Seen it forums for as long as I've been reading, about 15 years, every problem is exactly the same problem. Fish are in some trouble, a bunch of guesses are provided, and the keeper starts picking cures and throwing everything they can at the stressed fish. That any fish ever survive is amazing.

 

[ntscott]

My natural reaction to a problem such as the one that I just experienced is to react. I have chosen a different option this time. Pause. Since there are no fish that need saving, (still painful) immediate and/or drastic action wasnt necessary. I have just kept the filter running 24/7 for the past week. The water is as clear as tap water. Too bad that there isnt anything swimming around for me to enjoy.

Sissy- Your comment regarding a submerged pump got me thinking. How in the heck can I tell if that is the problem? Hopefully you wont tell me to take my shoes off and hop in to see if I have a shocking experience.

I have not put any new fish in the pond and dont plan to untilI figure out the problem. The problem with that plan is that I may never know what killed all of my acquatic buddies.

 

[sissy]

now that would be a shocking moment and I would never suggest that .I would first inspect it see if there is any visible damage and remember never pull a pump by it's cord .Have you tested the water to see if there is anything on the tests .If something shows up after all this time then it could be something in the water .You could get a cheap goldfish and see what happens .Have you put your hands in the water and felt a tingle or light shock .I keep my ph at 9 and keep it that way by adding bags of crushed oyster shells from tractor supply .I have koi also .I also use quilt batting to pick up all the fine nasty stuff .
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[Fishylove]

Actually ntscott, that's how I found out the submerged pump in one of my ponds Was shocking the fish. I went to do weekly cleaning of the filter and felt a tingle shock in the water. Surprised me!! Lol.
I agree with waterbug, no matter how much I want to get in there and get the water moving and cleaned up, I have to stop myself from doing it. Because as waterbug had said, if you didn't clean out your filters and cleaned all the muck off the bottom in the fall before the temps dropped and the good bacteria went dormant. Stirring up all of the muck and yuck on the bottom ( which is where the bad guys like to hang out ) and introducing those bad guys to your already immuno-compromised fish is not a good idea. But again this is how we learn.
And if I may give you a bit of a tip for this fall, idk know about everyone else, but when I start to clean out the ponds in the fall ( again this is when it typically should be done ), I remove all of the fish from the pond and place them in a spare preform pond with water from THIER pond I pump into it (before the bottom is stirred up). This way the fish are not exposed to the brunt of the cleaning, and helps to keep their immune systems strong. Be sure to put a small filter or air stone in with the fish while you are cleaning. Once the water is running clear again, this is when I put new filter material in and let the pond cycle till the next morning. Now my ponds are not over populated/stocked so they are fine in their temporary home till morning, you may need two or more places to hold them. In the morning I remove and clean the filter material again and start the pumps and start putting back the fish one at a time. This is a great time to look them over good for parasites, wounds and such. Once all the little guys are back in thier home, this is a good time to cover the pond with dear netting or bird netting to keep the upcoming fall leaves from falling in the pond.
Sorry about your fishy's that is a bummer. But this is how we learn the hobby well, from experience
Best wishes!

 

[sissy]

Thats why I use quilt batting in my filters all year round ,as long the pumps are working there is quilt batting in a basket on top .I don't mind the extra work the quilt batting gives me ,I just worry more about the bad stuff that can be in the pond .I also start me fish out with garlic in there fall and spring food .Like they say garlic fights all evil.I use a pool net every week just to keep the bad stuff off the bottom also .I always soak my quilt batting in water and peroxide too

 

[callingcolleen1]

Very sorry to hear you lost you pretty fish!

I wonder why you even shut the pumps off? I understand it is a warmer climate in Portland and thinking maybe you should have left pumps running all winter like I do here in Canada. You don't need to run a big pump during winter, but a good little pump and filter will help keep the water fresher all winter. I also increase the flow of water this time of the year to simulate a natural spring runoff and that helps to clear up lots of winter muck and wash it into the marshes downstream. I do this every year for the last 22 years now, since 1991. I have really big KOI that are about 20 years old, lots of goldfish too, that have been staying outside in the cold Canadian winter and they all survive good as long as the water is moving under the ice.

I would panic if my main pumps ever shut down.....

 

[sissy]

true I leave my pumps running and put the pond heater near the pump if it gets really cold :razz: cold for me is 25 degrees not colleens cold

 

[Dave 54]

We go through the winter with pumps an U/V-C running prior to winter all our filters are given a damn good clean as well as the pond.
We cover our pond with Polycarbonate sheeting to keep the worst of the winter at bay,
Just because uts winter doesnt mean everything stops you dont ever need to turn the pump off this is a big no no water changes must still be done usingwhat we koi keepers call the trickle method where water is alowed to trickle into the pond this has the effect of warming the water to the temperature of your pond using the ambient temperature of the pond we do this on a weekly basis and we wash through our vortex at the same time.
Weve been keeping fiish since 1987 goldfish at first then moving onto ko and for 22 of those years we kept our koi indoors moving our koi outdoors about a number of years ago.
In all this time weve only lost 8 koi, everyone losses fish from time to time those, those who say they havent I take with a pinch of salt if you get my drift ?
We all pick ourselves up again learn from our mistake and carry on more the wiser loosing a fish or fishes tends to re-focus you use that in your favour.
May I ask you were there any red areas on your fish when you netted out the dead ones ?
If so you my have an aeromonas infection hich is caused by a number of things , fluctuations in temperature, over crowding, dirty water.etc
You must understand that all ponds have to give them their proper name aeromonas hydrophila which is a bacterial infection there are other nasties as well such as flavobacterium columnare as well as a varient strain of Aeromonas called Aeromonas salmonicida which attacks the mouth making it appear to rot away with infected fish
These guys just hang around doing nothing until conditions are right. i'e dirty ponds and filters which is the reason we do all the cleaning prior to winter and then again in late spring ready for summer.
Your fish have a mucus coat around their bodies but these two are just looking to get through when that happens and nothing is done "disaster strikes", and fish die if not treated with a good bacteriacide .
I'm not saying your fish died of this but its one of the main reasons fish die.
May I ask if your pond is aireated, if yes did you also turn this off as well can you see where I'm going with this. we ourselves only turn ours down in the pond and all our filters have airstones so the water is well aireated going back into the pond our filters are also covered and insulated as well as the pond, we have a small oil heated radiator 800 watts ro warm the air which in turn warms our water so the cold isnt much of a problem with us so much so tha we have a reduced feeding routine.but if our pond dipps bellow 14c we think about starting to quit it never gets to 10c which is the cut off point .
Waterbug uses the other side of the thermometer and is quite right in what he says I just prefare the other side its much easier.
Learn from your mistakes as we all do , work on cleaning your pond and filter ready to restock in the summer .
Wishing you the best of luck

rgrds

Dave