buying a tank

[redblazer37]

I am buying a tank for indoors an moving 3 of my 6 fish from my pond to the tank indoors not because of Winter coming but because I believe now that my bio-load IS to much for my pond. Does anyone here have any thoughts or knowledge on how to prepare the tank for my fish coming out of the pond into the tank. I am putting a 3 inch and (2) 5 to 6 inch goldfish in the tank. Was looking at a 60 gallon tank. please advise. I wrote to you guys a couple of months ago and got some really good advice when my ammonia level spiked and I did some water changes put some plants in the pond and upgraded my biofilter. The fish perked up for a couple of days but now they seem stressed again and tha ammonia level is still up so I am just trying to see if this is the answer to the problem.

 

[capewind]

I have a 55 gallon tank running that I keep swapping the fish out in. Meaning I wanted a fish tank in the house to look at, so I just collect a few fry from the pond (which we do anyways, but that is another topic entirely), and when they outgrow the tank, they get moved elsewhere and start over again;-) I haven't keep anything larger than 3" in this tank, but have higher numbers. I would be a bit uneasy with the 5-6" range but it is doable. A few years ago we "adopted" 4 lionhead goldfish in that size range, that came with a 20 gallon tank. It was a nightmare keeping their water quality good. The easy answer here is yes, a 60 gallon COULD work, but how well will depend on your filtration and dedication to maintaining good water quality.

How big is your outside pond? 6 fish shouldnt be putting out THAT much of a load??? What are the other 3 fish, and how big?

 

[dieselplower]

in a 60 gallon tank with 3 decent size goldfish you are going to want to do around a 75% water change every week to keep the water parameters in good shape. I would suggest 2 filters, with a total flow rated at 600 gph or more. Following this advice will set yourself up for a nice easy Winter. Skimp out and expect problems. If you are able to take filter media out of the pond filter and put it into the new tank filters, it will help cycle the new tank more quickly. Putting 3 fish into an uncycled tank is also asking for fish death unless you are prepared to monitor the water quality regularly and do numerous water changes.

 

[JohnHuff]

A few issues here:
According to your profile, you have a 200g pond. That's a pretty small pond and possibly not deep enough for any fish to survive in NY for the Winter. Has it undergone at least 1 Winter with the fish surviving?

With Winter coming you won't be feeding and there won't be any problem keeping 6 fish in your pond if it doesn't freeze.

A different issue here, but I am sure you can keep 6 fish in a 200g pond if you had enough filtration. What kind of biofiltration do you have right now?

Keeping an indoor tank is similar to an outdoor tank in some ways but different in others.
You need gravel and a good filter. I think 1lb of gravel to 1g of tank, but at least 1.5 inches of gravel at the bottom. Transfer 30g pond water to the tank and fill up with treated water. Transfer media from the pond to the tank so you'll have beneficial bacteria at the get go.

Get a filter that's rated for a 60g tank. But tanks here are rarely 60g sizes. But 55g are common and that will be close enough for you. You'll also need decor inside the tank so they don't get bored, plants to help with the filtration and lights. Extra aeration is highly recommended.

Diesel. Do you mean 60gph? Surely she doesn't need a 600gph filter for a 60g tank. That would blow water all over the place and make her tank a fast running river instead of a tank. Also 75% water change is too much. The rule of thumb is 20% per week and 50% each month. (Because we have multiple filters and a lot of plants, we only do one 50% per month).

IMHO, an indoor tank is a whole new animal and more difficult to learn. Outdoor tanks are basically maintenance free compared to indoor tanks. Indoor tanks are maintenance intensive. I learned a lot more about fish keeping from indoor tanks. I think of indoor tanks as fish living in the city and outdoor ponds as fish living in the countryside.

 

[redblazer37]

thanks for the advice... and to answer your question about the fish surviving, yes last year was our first winter and all 6 fish survived and it was a rough Winter. I never turned off the fountain and I had a deicer just in case but water never froze since it kept running even in the snow and freezing cold. However my concern now is because my fish are just getting back to normal and Winter is right around the cornewr. They are eating better now but soon i wont be able to feed them. Also after doing a little research this morning I'm looking for A 75 to 90 gallon tank. Appreciate all advice as always, thx.

 

[JohnHuff]

75-90g would be much better. Please write back if you have any specific questions regarding setup. I think you should do it asap because the weather is getting cold even here already. There's a lot of equipment to buy in setting up a first tank and time to get it ready. Cheers! John

 

[dieselplower]

Keeping an indoor tank is similar to an outdoor tank in some ways but different in others.
You need gravel and a good filter. I think 1lb of gravel to 1g of tank, but at least 1.5 inches of gravel at the bottom. Transfer 30g pond water to the tank and fill up with treated water. Transfer media from the pond to the tank so you'll have beneficial bacteria at the get go.

Get a filter that's rated for a 60g tank. But tanks here are rarely 60g sizes. But 55g are common and that will be close enough for you. You'll also need decor inside the tank so they don't get bored, plants to help with the filtration and lights. Extra aeration is highly recommended.

Diesel. Do you mean 60gph? Surely she doesn't need a 600gph filter for a 60g tank. That would blow water all over the place and make her tank a fast running river instead of a tank. Also 75% water change is too much. The rule of thumb is 20% per week and 50% each month. (Because we have multiple filters and a lot of plants, we only do one 50% per month).

I disagree with all of this. As does pretty much everyone on another forum I am on, that deals 99% with goldfish. I do not use any gravel on the bottom. If I were to, I would use a thin layer. Yes, I did mean 600 gph worth of filter. In fact, I have 750 gph on my 75 gallon tank and 600 gph on my 40 gallon tank and believe it or not, water does not splash all over. I strongly disagree with changing 20% of the water per week. That might work with smaller fish but goldfish get big, and messy. Feel free to visit www.kokosgoldfish.com for some good reading.

By the way, I use water drop test kits to test my water and I can tell you that you will not be able to keep ammonia and nitrate in check changing 20% of the water a week. It may be that my fish are bigger, but I am sure this persons fish will grow as well.

 

[JohnHuff]

Diesel, if anything, your arguments with WB should have taught you that even despite "pretty much everyone on another forum you am on, that deals 99% with goldfish" read my post within 40 min of me posting it and "disagreed", it's possible that two opinions can be correct.

 

[capewind]

I think 1lb of gravel to 1g of tank, but at least 1.5 inches of gravel at the bottom.

And this is WHY??? If we were talking a marine aquarium and crushed coral, yes to control the PH/KH. but why so much gravel? I suppose in the old days when undergravel filters were popular, maybe you'd want a good based of gravel to trap the debis under it, but otherwise, the gravel is just cosmetic. To put a thick layer in my view is just a place to trap debris and cause a water quality nightmare ...

Diesel. Do you mean 60gph? Surely she doesn't need a 600gph filter for a 60g tank.

He can clarify for himself, but on my 55 gallon tank, I am running 2 Aquaclear 300s (renamed 70s) which are EACH rated to a 70 gallon tank, at 300 goh EACH ... AND a Tetra Whisper EX20, which is rated for tanks up to 20 gallons, and 110 gph ... So in total, filters rated for a combined 160 gallons, and a total of 710 gallons per hour ... I do ZERO water changes, only add for evaporation, and as a rule, do not run ammo or carbon chips unless there are a lot of fry in there (as in a few hundred) ... I also have a large fist full of parrots feather in there too ... water tests under my non few hundred fry load are ALWAYS ZERO ammonia/nitrites .. and nitrates are usually about 5 ppm ...

 

[capewind]

If I were to, I would use a thin layer.

I am going to say I have an AVERAGE of a half inch of gravel in our tanks ... most of the areas are covered so the bottom is JUST covered, so may be closer to a quarter of an inch, but I have added fistfulls here and there to stick plants into, and to be honest, decided I didnt like it, so spread it all out, and just used a rock to weight down my clump of parrots feather.

 

[JohnHuff]

When I started up my tanks, that's the rule of thumb I came across. Appears to be standard across the board. I have not questioned it, you may wish to put the question to tank forums. There are a lot of things which I find quaint or questionable. For example, I've seen a lot of tanks with single HOB filters, and that's all they use. My brother-in-law uses no filtration but a thick layer of gravel and weekly water changes. In my own 55g, I have:
2 moving bed filters, 1 with K2, 1 with straws
Sponge filter
1 HOB
2 wet dry filters, 1 with K2 and 1 with straws,
Veggie scrubber
I could probably keep 5 koi there without problems.
What this tells me is that there are no "standards". We all do what we do. I guess the only gold standard is keeping the fish healthy.

And this is WHY??? If we were talking a marine aquarium and crushed coral, yes to control the PH/KH. but why so much gravel? I suppose in the old days when undergravel filters were popular, maybe you'd want a good based of gravel to trap the debis under it, but otherwise, the gravel is just cosmetic. To put a thick layer in my view is just a place to trap debris and cause a water quality nightmare ...

 

[JohnHuff]

To each their own. There are not only nitrogen compounds, but carbon compounds and trace amounts of other substances in waste. As long as your filters and plants are able to convert everything that you add to the tank, you should be fine. How do you get rid of the fish poop that falls to the bottom?

I also have 0 ammonia and nitrites because of my filtration but there's always fish poop in the gravel when I siphon.

Personally I don't like excessive water current, but that's just me. To that end I have a piped system of uptake to ensure that water is distributed evenly in the tank.

He can clarify for himself, but on my 55 gallon tank, I am running 2 Aquaclear 300s (renamed 70s) which are EACH rated to a 70 gallon tank, at 300 goh EACH ... AND a Tetra Whisper EX20, which is rated for tanks up to 20 gallons, and 110 gph ... So in total, filters rated for a combined 160 gallons, and a total of 710 gallons per hour ... I do ZERO water changes, only add for evaporation, and as a rule, do not run ammo or carbon chips unless there are a lot of fry in there (as in a few hundred) ... I also have a large fist full of parrots feather in there too ... water tests under my non few hundred fry load are ALWAYS ZERO ammonia/nitrites .. and nitrates are usually about 5 ppm ...

 

[capewind]

When I started up my tanks, that's the rule of thumb I came across. Appears to be standard across the board. I have not questioned it, you may wish to put the question to tank forums.

I thnk you SHOULD question it. If you want that much gravel because you like the looks of it, that is all well and fine, but it is NOT needed at all. The ONLY time I can ever remember a specific thickness of gravel was in regards to undergravel filters, and I cant even remember how many years it has been since we had one of those...

My brother-in-law uses no filtration but a thick layer of gravel and weekly water changes.

Filters are NOT actually needed as much as people think. Fish can do fine with NO filters, and no air pumps as well in most situations. Filters serve multi purposes, such as removing debris (large and fine), which a water change can also do ... and they mix oxygen into the water ... if a person chooses not to have filtration, they need to be concerned with their SURFACE AREA in relationship to their fish load.

 

[capewind]

How do you get rid of the fish poop that falls to the bottom?

How about it doesnt;-) Water flow and circulation keeps it moving, and up into the filters it goes.

I also have 0 ammonia and nitrites because of my filtration but there's always fish poop in the gravel when I siphon.

I dont have anything to siphon since I dont have a thick bed of gravel for it to decompose into. Again, gravel in my view is a cleaning nightmare. Makes more work than it needs to be.

Personally I don't like excessive water current, but that's just me. To that end I have a piped system of uptake to ensure that water is distributed evenly in the tank.

I am not sure what you mean by excessive water current. I get the feeling that when you think of 600+ gph you are convinced it could pump out or cause rapids or something. My parrots feather, a rather flexible plant, barely moves.

 

[dieselplower]

Keep in mind that HOB filters are designed to return the water back to the tank calmly. Some of them even have baffles built in to direct the water across the top of the tank, rather than dropping down into the tank. They are designed so that when the tank is full, there really isn't that much of a drop off anyway. None of the fish in any of my tanks have any sort of trouble swimming around the tank.
The actual recommendation I agree with for a tank is 10 times the size of the tank for gph. So 40 gallons is 400 gph. 75 gallons is 750 gph. Part of this is assuming that the tank is stocked at between 15 to 20 gallons per fish, and a 75% water change weekly. This keeps the water in good quality. As I said I do monitor my nitrate and ammonia and I am not just saying things out of thin air. Part of the reason for the 10x recommendation is because as the gph of a filter increases, so does the size of the filter media, which is where a lot of the breakdown of ammonia and nitrite occurs. It is widely accepted that a good amount of the good bacteria live on the filter material surfaces due to the good flow and high oxygen content found in that area.