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Message: [QUOTE="wispfox, post: 164779, member: 5461"] ah, sorry. capewind, i was unclear with my statement about society and alcohol. (on phone while eating snack before bed, so no caps) i didn't mean individuals specifically should be better about taking keys away. meant that as an example, but failed to be clear. if there were an implicit assumption in our society that you just don't drink and then drive, if anytime someone was about to drink alcohol while not at home, their keys were automatically put into a 'I'm going to drink' bucket or every place that served alcohol automatically assumed that anyone who was drinking would either specify their driver who did not drink, or gave their keys to the bartender, then no one would need to wrestle keys out of the hands of someone who shouldn't drive. it would just be something you didn't do. i don't know how one would get to that point, but it should be something completely out of societal norms to do, so that anyone who did it would be shunned, ridiculed, or otherwise clearly disobeying unspoken norms in a dangerous and stupid way. do you see what i was trying to say? it ought to be like... stripping naked in public. just something that is not done. y'know? anyway. [/QUOTE]