Best filter setup for large koi pond?

[sgrawunder]

I have 4000 gallon pond. Running a SeaHorse 4500GPH pump pushing water through a pressurized prefilter then to IonGen Algae Control unit then to Skippy type 100 gallon biofilter then back to pond via waterfall. Last year my pond was outstanding, with sparkling clean water, but then my prefilter lid manfunctioned late one night and all the water was drained out of the pond killing all my beautiful koi. So, now I'm basically starting over. I replaced the old filter with a Tetrapond 4000 pressurized filter that uses plastic beads. The filter has been in place for a week and I cannot see any improvement in water clarity, and the filter is already starting to dribble around the sealed lid. My last filter only lasted a year, and I think this new one is being returned ASAP. Now the question, what is the best way to provide mechanical filtration for a large fish pond? I seem to be having no luck finding one that will do the job. Any advice would be greatly appreciated. Thank you,Sandra

 

[Waterbug]

I seem to be having no luck finding one that will do the job.

There is no single filter, at any price, that will produce sparkling clean water. But then sparkling clean water is a relative term. Some people can't see the bottom of their pond and consider that to be sparkling clean.

Multiple filters is the solution to crystal clear water. Which filters relates to very specific criteria such as figuring out your definition of clean water, climate, budget, fish load, current pond structure, etc. Far too long a subject for me. The trade offs are endless and you have to look at the complete system.

In very general terms...

Things to stay away from imo...
In all cases stay away from the combo, cheap, that target (prey on) people's desire for stuff that sounds great. You found out about the material quality of these products already, but there even when they hold together they're poor filters.

If you're serious about clear water the Skippy is just about worthless. It was state of the art like 15-20 years ago and in the past 10 years is only used in water gardens which generally don't demand clear water 24/7. Serious Koi owners moved to Trickle Tower and then Shower filters and then fluidized / moving bed.

Bead filters were also state of the art 10-15 years ago as combo filters. Currently they're only used as pre filters, but even for that I think they're falling out of favor, but still used a lot as pre filters.

State of the art imo...
Bottom drain gravity fed --> Cetus Sieve --> maybe a bead filter --> maybe a sand filter --> UV filter. That's just mechanical removal.

Bio filters used in breaking down suspended particles a fluidized / moving bed is state of the art, but Shower filters are right up there. Not far behind is Trickle Tower which has been around a long time and is still very good (10 to 30 times more efficient than Skippy or other submerged media).

Simpler...
Green is handled by UV filters, period. After that you can have a bunch of cloudy / suspended stuff. Step one is to deal with the source. The fine stuff comes from decomposing stuff. That's why something like the Cetus Sieve is useful. Removing a leaf is easy. Removing the 7 billion tiny suspended particles of a single decomposed leaf is hard and expensive. Plus there are fish health benefits.

So a bottom drain with tangential pond returns (TPR), connected to something that gets the stuff out of the water column before decomposition is a good first step. Fish poop breaks down in hours, a couple of days at the most. Again why the sieve is state of the art. Bead filters can also work if back flushed daily, but few people do that, but some can auto back flush.

Vacuuming works if you don't have a good bottom drain system.

Move plants out of the pond.

A stream can help (works the same as a Trickle Tower). Bogs can help to (works the same as a bead filter). Fabric filters (all are DIY) can work but are very tricky to get right so sometimes they work, sometimes they don't.

Trickle water changing can also product clear water even without a UV. I do think it depends on the pond however.

 

[addy1]

I disagree with you wb. A lot of people have posted how the skippy type filter, has cleared up their water. I have plants in my pond and a bog, my water is quality and clarity is great. No bottom drain, just net it off and on. Sandra check the diy section at some of the filter builds, not expensive to build one, might just do the job for you for a small investment of some time and materials.

"Green is handled by UV filters, period."
I don't have green water, don't have a uv filter, so that statement, for my pond, is totally wrong. Have not ever had green water with this pond, even when it was new.

"Move plants out of the pond."
I have tons of plants in my pond, my pond stays great, not sure why you are so against plants in a pond.

"Multiple filters is the solution to crystal clear water."
My water is crystal clear, low ppm particles, I have just one filter, a bog.

 

[DrCase]

My Skippy style drums Work great !!

 

[addy1]

My Skippy style drums Work great !!

I made one jut to remove the pea gravel dirt when we first fired the bog up. Within 3 days the water went from murky to clear. Have not used it since, poor thing is sitting abandoned.

 

[koiguy1969]

My Skippy style drums Work great !!

AS DO MINE!!.....MY WATER IS PRISTINE, AND CRYSTAL CLEAR, IN BOTH MY INDOOR POND AND OUTDOOR POND. WITH NO U.V AND MY OUTDOOR POND IS IN ABSOLUTE FULL SUN ALL DAY!
there are many people on this forum who have and will attest to the fine job a skippy style filter did/does for them. we would however suggest adding the flush valve assembly as we did. the original skippy didnt incorperate one. there are factors in the efficiency of a filter..media used, flow rate. etc... what makes a skippy is the "swirl bar" upflow plumbing inside the filter. not the container, not the media used. altho they do make suggestions on what they like, and preferr.

 

[sgrawunder]

Wow, I didn't expect such great responses! My fish pond is going on 3 years now, and for 2.5 years it was beautiful, and still would be if I hadn't had such a disaster with malfunctioning equipment. I feel like I have done this right, some by trial and error (LOL). Starting at the top: I have the right size pump for my pond; I installed an IonGen to control algae (this eliminates the need for chemicals); I have a bottom intake line and I do a 10% water change once a week as well as prefilter cleaning, trim up the plants (which requires that I go swimming up to my waist!), vacumm the bottom (I do skim leaves out every evening) and I flush out the bottom of the Skippy. Yes, I have tons of plants, mostly large specie waterlillies which provide the 60% surface shade I desperately need here in S Texas and also utilize the nutrients in the water. I only have about 20% of the fish load this pond could handle. My water tests are always perfect. I think of my Skippy as the BIOFILTER, and what I need now is a PREFILTER to replace the one I had. I now recognize that my biggest problem is finding a mechanical filter system that can handle the 4500 gph pressure of my pump. So, thank you to those who reinforced my system with their own experiences, and if anyone knows of or can recommend a "large capacity mechanical filter system" I would love to hear from you! Happy ponding!!!

 

[DrCase]

In all Fairness To my friend Waterbug
The ? was the best Filter for a large koi pond
I run skippys but if i spent more $$$$ i could do better

 

[baeya]

My pond is 6500 gal. Have had it for at least 10 years. It was installed by pros with whatever they use and we Never saw the bottom of the pond until I joined this forum last Spring and installed a Skippy filter! Pond was crystal clear in a week!

 

[Waterbug]

As I said, Skippy is very popular in water gardens. There are hundreds of people who will give glowing recommendations. If that's the criteria for picking a filter then cool. If test data on efficiency is the criteria then Skippy is a poor choice.

Sandra already has a Skippy and is unhappy with water quality. I'm not sure of the point in telling her to build another one. But sure, build 10 or 20 of them.

Sandra also has a $500 bead filter so seems willing to consider higher end filters. At least that was my impression. I thought maybe it was OK to discuss what Sandra was asking, especially since the post was down the latest posts list without any answers. I guess not. My mistake.

I don't have green water, don't have a uv filter, so that statement, for my pond, is totally wrong. Have not ever had green water with this pond, even when it was new.

Good for you Addy. For anyone else who has green water and wants it fixed by the weekend UV is only 100% solution. You are totally wrong Addy thinking everyone's pond should work as perfectly as yours or if they install the exact same pond as yours they will have the exact same results.

I have tons of plants in my pond, my pond stays great, not sure why you are so against plants in a pond.

Good for you Addy. Didn't realize I was so against plants in a pond. Here's a picture of part of my previous pond.

There are some things I am against...plants aren't one of them. However, if a person has a water quality problem and if they have potted plants in the pond they can be a source of decomposition which may contribute to poor water quality. What I'm not against is being able to an open discussion without pushing my personal preferences and anyone and everyone. I prefer to discuss the multitude of ways ponds can be kept. That's what interests me and that's how I learn from these discussions.

My water is crystal clear, low ppm particles, I have just one filter, a bog.

Good for you Addy.

Personally I think your stream is your best filter, even if you don't consider it one of your filters. How long is your stream? Total drop? Anyone here have anything even close to Addy's stream? I don't think so. And a stream is a Trickle Tower, functions exactly the same. The only difference in building or buying a standalone Trickle Tower is the foot print...for people who don't have huge back yards and the time and money to build a stream as beautiful and functional as yours Addy.

In water gardens bogs are my fav too. Koi ponds...not as much. Koi ponds with heavy fish loads and a desire to grow large and healthy fish....a bog has no place. And if Koi pond owner expresses a desire to go with a manufactured filter I see no reason to push how I like to keep ponds as the only solution. I did say bogs were an option, but I guess I didn't push that agenda hard enough for some.

I am able to discuss and consider other filters. Not all ponds are the same. Not every pond owner has the same goals. I read that a lot here...reality seems a bit different.

 

[addy1]

My stream does not run very much wb, maybe an hour or so a day, it has not been on for over two weeks now. So I don't really factor it in, but it does help. I am not saying what I have will work for anybody but me, just stating what I have works great.

 

[addy1]

When I researched bogs, ways to build etc. I spent a lot of time on the monster fish keeping sites. The build of my pond and bog could handle a large load of koi with no difficulty, I just don't care to have koi.

There are many ways to build a pond, many different levels of ability to sink money into that pond, many different pumps, equipment etc. We all have to read and weed out what will work for our own situation, which may not work for someone else.

When I started this build I was told by quite a few that a bog would never work for a pond. I am pleased to say, for me, it works perfectly.