Bent Fish

[Anntig]

Hi All
I lost a fish a couple of days ago and now I have a second one showing the same symptoms, floating near the surface with bent spine gasping for breath, up until today he was acting normally,
I bought an Api master test kit and the readings were all fine, they didn't have an oxygen test kit
Ph 7.6
Ammonia 0
Nitrite 0
Nitrate 0

Pond is a 40000L (11000G) swimming pool It's had fish in it for about 6months, water temp is currently about 24C at the surface which is the warmest it's been, it has a pump at either end, one runs the mini bogs and waterfall the other I use to feed my garden sprinklers in the mornings and the rest of the time it jets across the surface creating a current, I have a hose trickling through a charcoal filter to replenish the pond, our tap water has minimum levels of chlorine added, otherwise is some of the purest in the world.
I have 24 comets under 20cm (plus an unknown number of babies) the first 9 were rescues that a neighbour brought me in june just before midwinter, I didn't really expect them to survive as they came from pretty bad conditions but they seemed to be thriving for the most part until now, both the fish I lost and the sick one were part of this group.
fish mostly free feed other than a small handful of food in the morning, mostly so I can see them all.
My other fish are for the most part acting fairly normal, the only thing I can think of is low oxygen due to the unusually high temperature,

Any advice or ideas on what is wrong, what else I could do would be great, google searches keep leading me back to nitrate poisoning but the levels seem to be fine.

Thanks Anntig

 

[Marck]

It is good you tested for nitrates, as nitrate poisoning that can be one reason for a sickly fish to be bent in the middle. Another possibility is tuberculosis. Shock due to a sudden temperature change could also do it, but 24ºC is 75ºF, which is warm but not usually considered too warm for goldfish. Still if the temperature went up rapidly it may be more than what the fish is used to.

Whatever it is, it has affected two fish but not all fish, so it is likely something environmental or contagious, but I would think that low oxygen levels would effect all the fish.

A swimming pool is a deep pond. Could the water remain stratified with only surface pumps? Maybe conditions down below are different (toxic?, anoxic?). I'll be interested to learn what you discover.

 

[brokensword]

It is good you tested for nitrates, as nitrate poisoning that can be one reason for a sickly fish to be bent in the middle. Another possibility is tuberculosis. Shock due to a sudden temperature change could also do it, but 24ºC is 75ºF, which is warm but not usually considered too warm for goldfish. Still if the temperature went up rapidly it may be more than what the fish is used to.

Whatever it is, it has affected two fish but not all fish, so it is likely something environmental or contagious, but I would think that low oxygen levels would effect all the fish.

A swimming pool is a deep pond. Could the water remain stratified with only surface pumps? Maybe conditions down below are different (toxic?, anoxic?). I'll be interested to learn what you discover.

Marck; stratification won't be present here as you need at least 13' or more (and even then other factors come into play) for that.

@Anntig ; one thing I noted was your water param numbers are ALL zero, which seems unnatural. Minimum, I'd expect some nitrates and looking at your pond water, you definitely have free floating algae; they're living on something, probably the nitrates. Are you using up-to-date liquid tests? Don't use the strips as they are notoriously not accurate. I'd get a new liquid test kit if you even suspect it's more than a year old, and do them again.

All that said, there's a lot of factors that can be causing this. If your water IS in good shape via the tests, you're heading into diseases area and there's multiple.

I'm not the expert in this dept and it might be you'll have to do some microcope work on the victims, or have a lab/fish club/vet delve further. I'd definitely shore up your water params, probably even change out a third of the water, and watch to see the other fish's behavior. If the others are totally acting fine, and I mean a good scrutiny for a few days with goodly time spent watching, then I'd suspect some singular contagion that MIGHT spread. Really hard to pinpoint until more numbers are confirmed and the autopsy-like observance is factored in.

Sorry if I'm not more help.

link for some further reading;

Why is my Fish Bent?

 

[Anntig]

Thank you both for your responses, the test is a liquid kit that I bought today exp 2025, I'll try to test again tomorrow in a couple of different places and see if I get different results, the link you posted does mention increased temperature can bend the spine and given the water temp is 4°C higher than normal I'm hoping that may be it, Hopefully tomorrow when we're supposed to get some cooler weather he'll recover, I'll keep an eye on them all and see if there are any changes

 

[brokensword]

Thank you both for your responses, the test is a liquid kit that I bought today exp 2025, I'll try to test again tomorrow in a couple of different places and see if I get different results, the link you posted does mention increased temperature can bend the spine and given the water temp is 4°C higher than normal I'm hoping that may be it, Hopefully tomorrow when we're supposed to get some cooler weather he'll recover, I'll keep an eye on them all and see if there are any changes

what you have to remember is water DOESN'T change temp as fast as air, so don't make that mistake. You'd have to have a shallow pond and major air changes to make that happen. And the temp you're showing is not that warm. I get temps in the low 80f sometimes and mostly, in your stated temp.

The grreen water should be a clue that something is off; the algae is trying to absorb something, ususally organics decaying in some form.

Good that your kit is new; should take that error factor away but doing it a couple of times simultaneously, should clarify. Btw, do you have a KH test? This measures your pond's ability to handle pH crashes.

 

[Lisak1]

I am surprised the water is so green with those test readings. Do you have any aeration? I don't see any water movement in your photos.

This is a long shot, but we have seen reports of bent spines in fish where there were electrical issues in the pond (the fish were getting shocked) or even from lightning strikes on the pond. Very rare, but a possibility. And it can affect some fish more than others depending on their closeness to the source when it happens.

 

[WaterGardener]

Electric shock is what came to my mind as well.

I was told that when a fish presents with that "C" shape that it is on the way out. It isn't likely to recover, unfortunately.

Sorry for you losses.

And please test for KH.

 

[j.w]

@Anntig
Sorry this is happening and hope you can correct it from all the help that will be given here.

 

[Mmathis]

Not trying to diagnose your problem, but often “bent fish” appear after an electrical incident…..such as a lightening strike or a short in the electrical system (sorry if someone already mentioned this…..I didn’t read through the answers)

 

[Lisak1]

Not trying to diagnose your problem, but often “bent fish” appear after an electrical incident…..such as a lightening strike or a short in the electrical system (sorry if someone already mentioned this…..I didn’t read through the answers)

Great minds!

 

[Anntig]

Thank you very much to everyone who took the time to read and respond, sadly I lost both him and another from the same group overnight I did multiple tests this morning and got the same result so I took a water sample in to the local fish guy and had a chat to him, the good news is my water is fine, while I do have some free floating algae the nitrate level is very low (my water is always black/brown due to tannin staining from the walnut tree that used to cover the pool) he also ruled out FishTB as we don't have it in NZ, he suggested it may be a genetic issue caused by intensive inbreeding and triggered by the heat (I know goldfish are supposed to be fine at 24C but where I live we don't usually get enough sustained heat to heat the water that much, and while the lower layers take time to change the top 30cm of water has always changed quickly it's back down to 21C today)
If it is genetic I may lose the rest of that group, one of them is a little off today but still swimming ok and not bent at all, the others all seem normal.
I've checked the pump cables and they're all fine- the fish can't get near the pumps themselves, I have surge protecters on everything, we don't have many thunderstorms here so lightning is unlikely.
I do have three seperate smallish waterfalls to provide aeration as well as a couple of solar fountains, there's abundant oxygen weed on the floor of the pond, I do plan to get an aerator eventually but I'm doing this on a miniscule budget so that will have to wait.
The other thing the fish guy mentioned is possible scoliosis so I've thrown in some orange pieces just in case although they do get a lot of greens.
Other than that I'm not sure what else i can do, so I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

 

[Marck]

Thank you for sharing this, Anntig. You really followed up on all leads. Hopefully the reason will become clear and there will be no more losses.

 

[brokensword]

Thank you very much to everyone who took the time to read and respond, sadly I lost both him and another from the same group overnight I did multiple tests this morning and got the same result so I took a water sample in to the local fish guy and had a chat to him, the good news is my water is fine, while I do have some free floating algae the nitrate level is very low (my water is always black/brown due to tannin staining from the walnut tree that used to cover the pool) he also ruled out FishTB as we don't have it in NZ, he suggested it may be a genetic issue caused by intensive inbreeding and triggered by the heat (I know goldfish are supposed to be fine at 24C but where I live we don't usually get enough sustained heat to heat the water that much, and while the lower layers take time to change the top 30cm of water has always changed quickly it's back down to 21C today)
If it is genetic I may lose the rest of that group, one of them is a little off today but still swimming ok and not bent at all, the others all seem normal.
I've checked the pump cables and they're all fine- the fish can't get near the pumps themselves, I have surge protecters on everything, we don't have many thunderstorms here so lightning is unlikely.
I do have three seperate smallish waterfalls to provide aeration as well as a couple of solar fountains, there's abundant oxygen weed on the floor of the pond, I do plan to get an aerator eventually but I'm doing this on a miniscule budget so that will have to wait.
The other thing the fish guy mentioned is possible scoliosis so I've thrown in some orange pieces just in case although they do get a lot of greens.
Other than that I'm not sure what else i can do, so I guess I'll just have to wait and see.

I might add this to the conversation; ANY underwater plant (I note you said you have an abundance) will give off O2 during the day BUT!!! Huge BUTTTT!!! they take IN O2 at night. Now, did you also know warmer water doesn't hold as much O2 as cold? I'm betting the combo is what might be at the heart of your problem. Were it my pond, I'd limit the UW plants to 1/3 or less of the pond bottom.

 

[Lisak1]

Good catch @brokensword - I was going to say the same thing. Underwater plants are referred to as "oxygenators" in the trade, but they are no more oxygenating than any other plant, and as you indicated, they reverse the process at night just like every other plant. Something to consider!

 

[mrsclem]

Do you still have the walnut tree over the pond? The leaves and nuts are toxic!

Thank you very much to everyone who took the time to read and respond, sadly I lost both him and another from the same group overnight I did multiple tests this morning and got the same result so I took a water sample in to the local fish guy and had a chat to him, the good news is my water is fine, while I do have some free floating algae the nitrate level is very low (my water is always black/brown due to tannin staining from the walnut tree that used to cover the pool) he also ruled out FishTB as we don't have it in NZ, he suggested it may be a genetic issue caused by intensive inbreeding and triggered by the heat (I know goldfish are supposed to be fine at 24C but where I live we don't usually get enough sustained heat to heat the water that much, and while the lower layers take time to change the top 30cm of water has always changed quickly it's back down to 21C today)
If it is genetic I may lose the rest of that group, one of them is a little off today but still swimming ok and not bent at all, the others all seem normal.
I've checked the pump cables and they're all fine- the fish can't get near the pumps themselves, I have surge protecters on everything, we don't have many thunderstorms here so lightning is unlikely.
I do have three seperate smallish waterfalls to provide aeration as well as a couple of solar fountains, there's abundant oxygen weed on the floor of the pond, I do plan to get an aerator eventually but I'm doing this on a miniscule budget so that will have to wait.
The other thing the fish guy mentioned is possible scoliosis so I've thrown in some orange pieces just in case although they do get a lot of greens.
Other than that I'm not sure what else i can do, so I guess I'll just have to wait and see.