Advise Needed - Yes? or No?

[pecan]

Hello all

Most here know me and my ponds. My large pond (5000 gallons or so) began with mosquito fish only, then I added comets and 2 shubunkins and a few years later added koi.

The last two falls I scooped out as many comets as I could and took them to a local pond store that re-sales to the public. I am hoping by the time I get up the energy to dig the pond deeper, I will be down to just my 9 koi that will need a temp home while the digging happens. Once complete I'll have a deeper strictly koi pond.

Anyway, I kind of like my 2 shubunkins and am thinking about instead of getting rid of them, putting them in my small pond/bog/water feature instead.

I am so used to my fish having such a big home I am hesitant and thinking it may not be humane to put them in the little pond. So I wanted to get your opinions.

The entire water feature, including the pond, bog and pots is roughly 500-700 gallons. But the pond itself is small. It measures about 2.5' wide x 4' long x 3' deep, The bog is about 3 times as big as the pond . I have about 1500 gallons an hours moving through the bog between 2 pumps. The pumps are in the pond under the large flat rocks and pull the water from the pond pushing it back through the bog. I never added fish, but had some comet babies show up last year I moved into the big pond.

I figure the gallonage is big enough and I have enough filtration since the bog is much larger than the pond, but I am thinking more along the lines of just swimming space might be too small.

I would love to move my 2 shubunkins over and maybe purchase 2 more and have 4 shubunkins swimming in the little pond.

What do you think? And if you do think it is ok, what do you think the max amount of shubunkins would be for this little pond? I've attached picture below of the small pond in question.

 

[MitchM]

I'm with you, anytime I move my fish to a larger aquarium, I notice different behaviour from them and I believe it lowers their stress level as well.
My opinion is that that small pond is too small of a swimming space for even 2 shubunkins.

 

[rodsboys]

I'd say that is plenty of room for 4 shubunkins. Your pond is about 225 gallons, that's 56 gallons per fish. A lot of guidelines you see for them say 30 gallons each. I wouldn't hesitate to put 6 in there myself.

 

[rodsboys]

I picture it as a standard 4' - 120 gallon aquarium with an extra foot of height and 1/2 foot of width. People keep way bigger fish then shubunkins in aquariums like that including wild caught salt water fish that are use to an infinite more amount of swimming room.

 

[pecan]

Thanks both for your opinions. I have also considered burying a 2"-3" pipe in the gravel that connects the pond space with a small open water area in the bog that is about 10" deep. I thought it would give them more room and they can venture through the pipe for new scenery. I actually found a lot of comet babies in this area last year that hitched a ride on some plant roots into the bog.

Here is a picture of the bog showing the small open water area in the gravel between the two standing pots.

The bog is about 9' long x 6' wide x 18" deep connected to the pond with only one liner.

 

[pecan]

What about fancy goldfish? I don't know much about them but am pretty sure they don't get as big and don't swim as actively. Would they possibly be a better option.

I am in zone 7 and have seen ice on my big pond for 6 weeks at the most in the last five years I have had it. Maybe they aren't cold hardy enough?

 

[MitchM]

I think different fish have different space requirements.
I have a couple of clownfish that are happy staying in a 12" cube of water space, no matter how big of an aquarium I have them in.
I also have a blue tang that wanted more room to run, even in my 600g aquarium.

Fish need a safe place to quickly retreat to for safety, some fish have a certain place memorized, some fish dart all over the place and don't know where to go. If fish have no where to go, up is their only way out, and they can wind up jumping out of the water.
I have shubunkins in my outdoor 6000g pond, but my water is not clear, so they just need to go down to lower water depths for safety.
There are no hard and fast rules, but whatever we do, we should try to reduce their stress whenever possible.

I think fancy goldfish would be a great idea.

 

[pecan]

Thanks Mitch I'll look into fancy goldfish a little more.

There are some nice hiding spots for fish as the area in the first picture where the pond meets the bog has some flat rocks placed that have created small caves and crevices that go back almost 12" before the bog area begins. I figured any fish I add will likely hide back in there for a while before they are comfortable coming out.

 

[rodsboys]

Fancies are a great idea. You could do calico fan tails with blue hues if you are really into the shubunkins. My fan tails do winter outside here in Alberta. 6+ months no food and plenty cold.

I'm not a fan of your pipe idea by the way. Too much potential for predators to get at them in that really shallow area.

 

[JBtheExplorer]

I started with a 30 gallon pond, with a couple shubunkins. Had it for three years before building bigger. I do feel it was a little too small for two shubunkins, but they seemed as happy in that small pond as they did in the larger pond, and your small pond is definitely much larger than 30 gallons, so in my opinion they would be just fine.

 

[CometKeith]

I think your little pond would be great for 2-4 fish. I actually use surface area for my rule of thumb and use 1 inch of fish for 1 square feet of surface area. At 10 square feet your pond would hold 10 inches of fish and with the higher filtration rate probably more and would give the fish plenty of room to move around. You can add a few things to make it interesting for them and of course goldfish love plants and do not eat them like koi. Re fancy goldfish many of them do very poorly in temps lower than 60 degrees F so I would be careful adding them. I would consider instead fish that have split tails, wakin, or watonais, but definitely no ryukins, lionheads etc. Good luck with your goldfish pond!

 

[MitchM]

Shubunkins can grow to 18 inches.

 

[Dave 54]

I'm with you, anytime I move my fish to a larger aquarium, I notice different behaviour from them and I believe it lowers their stress level as well.
My opinion is that that small pond is too small of a swimming space for even 2 shubunkins.

Its because they somehow realize they are safe behind glass from all preditors , I'd noticed that too Mitch

Dave

 

[bettasngoldfish]

Personally I love your "little" pond and I think you could have a few shubs in there with no problem.

I'm also a fan of fancy goldfish but not sure how hardy they are in a pond environment. I suppose you could always try 3 or 4 fantails (who out of all the fancy breeds are probably the most hardy) what ever you end up doing we want pictures

 

[MitchM]

Hmm, so I'm the only one that thinks it's too small for shubies? lol
That's ok, I try to understock all of my aquariums or ponds, it's easier to control excess nutrients and fish stress/illness that way.
Call me lazy.