A SAD LEARNING EXPERIENCE FOR ME.....

[Mmathis]

DISCLAIMER: I am open to the possibility that there is more to this story, but even so, the experience has taught me a valuable lesson.

The story: I have some Wakin & Shubunkin in quarantine. Having a little trouble keeping the water quality WNL, but otherwise, the fish have been doing well. Yesterday afternoon I found one of the Wakin dead, and it seemed very freshly so. Had no indication of a problem prior to this, and the other fish seemed fine. I tried to examine the fish to see if I could find any obvious problems [but I admit that I didn't really know what to look for]. The only thing that stood out was an area around its head that had some evidence of petechial hemorrhaging and possible tissue damage. Injury? But how??

Took a bunch of pictures and sent them to Fishin4cars to examine -- it was one of the fish I got from him. Hoping that Larkin would spot something significant, but all he really saw was the same area that looked like an injury. Long story short, I started looking back over the 48 hours prior to this and pieced together this scenario.....

I was using bricks placed over the edge of the QT pool as a way of securing the protective netting. What I THINK happened was that [through a series of events], the wall of the pool collapsed, causing the bricks to fall into the water. I suspect that the fish was trapped and injured.

So, what I did was come up with a way to fasten the bricks to the outside edge of the netting. The tension of the bricks pulling down on the netting all the way around holds it in place. So, something as simple as trusting a brick sitting on the edge of the pool cost the life of a very nice fish



Eye on "injured" side....


Eye on "uninjured" side


The "problem"


The solution...


Hoping this will serve as a warning to others -- I've learned my lesson!

 

[sissy]

Sorry to here shame too nice looking fish and I used to pound rebar around the edges of the pond to hold my netting before I got the bridge done and then after that went with window screening .To many frogs legs were getting tangled in the netting .

 

[fishin4cars]

TM, I hope not to rub salt in a open wound so to speak and by posting this my intentions are that other new members might learn from as well. Another lesson learned that I see far to often. Make sure the QT is up and running, fully cycled and all water quality ready before purchasing new fish. Although I "THINK" that this fish might of died from a injury there is the possibility that water quality or even a unseen microscopic problem aren't 100% out of question either. This goes to show others as well the importance of QT. Even though we both saw the fish you got from me were healthy and I know they had been in there with no issues for well over three months this doesn't mean that it was completely parasite, or bacterial free. It only means they had settled into that QT with no issues and nothing had been seen to date. There is also that possibility something came in on the other fish from the dealer. He keeps large #'s of fish together, so if something does go wrong it could effect many. But in his ponds as you probably saw, all fish seem healthy and I VERY rarely ever see a dead fish at his place at all. But that doesn't mean the little bad bugs aren't there, they could be just dormant hosts that pose very little danger when only a minimal are present. Moving can stress a fish, then when water chemistry isn't stable it compounds the problem. That's when then host kick in and explode in numbers when the immunity system is at it's weakest. Now you add in the possibility it could be a injury and as you see, it can make coming up with a true course of action quite difficult. I do commend you on taking the extra effort to make a QT pond and use it. This is really is a big stepping stone in the experience we learn. I hate to hear the loss of any fish. But I do like reading those few posts where someone is taking those extra efforts when they learn from a mistake, and or mishap to TRY and prevent it from happening again.

 

[Mmathis]

Thanks, Larkin -- and I DID include a "disclaimer." I'm always open to ideas & new possibilities!

Your points are EXCELLENT, and that's a very good explanation as to the WHY's of keeping good water quality, whether in a QT or in the pond! Based on a few recent posts [poster to remain nameless....], it's obvious that there are people out there who refuse, for whatever reason, to look at the big picture. And it IS a big picture, but made up of many smaller pictures that have to fit together like a jigsaw puzzle. If you don't fit them together right, you never get a chance to see the big picture! [gosh, that almost sounds like I know what I'm talking about ] Then, there are those posters who just don't know, but are willing to learn. And that's why we have the LARKINS, DAVE'S, WATERBUGS, HTH'S, KOIGUYS, ADDY'S..... The list goes on. Obviously, there is a very good reason for the advice all you guys give -- it works, and most likely you've been-there-done-that!

In my defense, my original plan was to forgo the "established" QT biofilter, and opt for a salt-water progression. After 2 days of dealing with bad water results and almost constant water exchanges, I gave that up real fast. Made a little TT, using media and water from the pond to fill the QT pool, thinking that would be enough. Well, maybe in a couple of weeks it will be enough..... Another lesson learned!

 

[capewind]

Awww ... I am so sorry that you lost this beautiful little fish, but great going on realizing where and why you did wrong. Also want to throw yet another idea out to you for securing a net on a plastic kiddie pool ... Ours isnt set up right now, but went to the basement and took a couple pictures Simpy take a drill (no fish in pool), and drill half a dozen sheet rock screws into the lip of the pool, and then you can stretch a net securely to the top ...

 

[Mmathis]

Good idea!

 

[capewind]

Worked for us ... and it even kept the dog from trying to lay in there too

 

[Mmathis]

BTW, in case anyone else has input as to what happened here, I welcome the input. I'm assuming it's an injury, but admit that I'm only seeing it through my little window. Someone else might have other opinions...

 

[capewind]

I didnt give it any additional thought, just accepted injury at face value ... looked at the pics again, and all I can say is I have no experience with any disease that looks like that... and havent seen ammonia spikes do that either ...

 

[Mmathis]

Awww ... I am so sorry that you lost this beautiful little fish, but great going on realizing where and why you did wrong. Also want to throw yet another idea out to you for securing a net on a plastic kiddie pool ... Ours isnt set up right now, but went to the basement and took a couple pictures Simpy take a drill (no fish in pool), and drill half a dozen sheet rock screws into the lip of the pool, and then you can stretch a net securely to the top ...

Thanks, CW! Tried this today and I think it's going to work just fine! What kind & size pool is that in your pic?

BTW, I lost another of the fish the other day. No obvious signs of injury, at least nothing like the first little guy. Have been battling high ammonia & nitrites from the beginning. Have 2 pumps going: one to TT and one to a "fountain." Air pump with 3 air stones & good output. Temps have been a problem and have a canopy up with extra shade flaps. Every day or every other day water changes. Strongly suspect my kiddie pool (under 200 gal) is too small..... Started out with a larger SnapSet pool, but didn't like how easily the sides would collapse. May be switching back to it, though.

 

[capewind]

Oh no .... I am so sorry to hear this ...

I have a bunch of standard, plastic kiddie pools that you buy for a toddler. They measure 60" x 12" but they only hold a bit over 100 gallons.

I've used them multi times, and with high volume ... When I had it set up to QT Koi, we did daily water changes, and had no filtration. Just a fish tank air pump ... http://www.petsmart.com/product/index.jsp?productId=3742976&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No the $30 unit. I had gotten fish from 2 ebay sellers, and had 2 pools going. One had 7 koi (5-12") and the other had 2 koi, 8 and 14" ... We did lose the 14" fish, but not to water quality issues, he jumped out (didnt have the net secured good enough, it was after his death that hubby put the screws in the lip of the pool....

Last spring, we also had one set up in the dining area, which had about 15 fish at a time. That was a mix of koi and comets, a couple bigger fish about 8-9", but most were in the 4-6" range. They had the air pump, water changes and this filter ...
http://www.petsmart.com/product/ind...ion+&+Circulation&f=PAD/psNotAvailInUS/No again, the $30 unit ...

In our situation, we had them inside, so heat wasnt a factor. Does your house have a garage or a basement you can bring them into, to better control the heat?

How many fish do you have now, how big, and which pool are you using? How hot is the pool getting? How high are your ammonia and nitrites? How big are you water changes? Sorry for so many questions, but know these pools work, so trying to figure out what is going wrong ...

 

[gardengimp]

Oh Maggie, I'm so sorry.

I'm guessing us newbies are learning just how much heat affects water quality.

When I've got my tote set up on the front porch, I have 15 - 18 gallons and at most 10" of fish. This last go a few months back was 6" of fish. I would change 4 to 5 gallons of water a day. I used Prime to condition the water for changes, Easy for me to use for small water quantities. I didn't - don't have a biofilter to remove the converted ammonia, but thinking the daily large water changes did that.

Shakaho, Sharon, does something that you might be able to utilize. She has a large container up beside her pond to hold water to drip into the pond. You could use a 55 gallon barrel, or even a brute trash can, put a spigot affair on the bottom with a irrigation dripper attached to it. I'm just guessing, but drip say 2 GPH into your QT. You would treat the water in the barrel, so treated water would be dripping into the pool.

 

[Mmathis]

Trying to answer with quotes, but keeps saying I crashed the server (not exactly, but....).

CW: Garage, but can't use it for fish. Picky husband.... .

9 fish. Pool is 60" x 12". Water temps are mid-80's, but afraid will go higher. Water quality not good (don't have numbers handy), but pH is stable even though KH on the low side (have crushed oyster shell in the pool), every day or every-other-day water changes (50% or greater). Have a pump to TT, and 2nd pump to fountain. Three air stones. Canopy with additional shades. Did a Woody Woodpecker on the TT to add more air, plus elevated the TT for more water drop.

GG: I think one of your suggestions (another thread) was a mister. Thinking about doing that on a timer, to come on several times each afternoon. Have a de-chlor cartridge on the hose, plus the "misting" should help with chlorine. Hoping will help bring temp down, too.

Will be gone for 3 days next week (son's college freshman orientation) and really worried about leaving them, but no one to keep an eye on things while we're gone....

 

[capewind]

Damn hubby, kick him in the arse and tell him it is temp LOL ...

I know nothing of dechlor carts, BUT have to ask how you know it is still good? Does it count gallons of use, or have something that says when it has expired? Or does it just mix in air to help the chlorine evap? My next thought is if the water going to the pool is on auto dechlor, set the hose to a trickle, say a quarter or half a gallon an hour, and let the pool overflow constantly... #1 constant supply of fresh water should take care of your ammonia and nitrites AND help cool the pool ... if you do it, just be sure that net is SECURE.

 

[capewind]

ohhh and for the ammonia .. run to the pet store and get a box of ammo chips ... and a no name brand of nylon knee highs ($3-5 for 10 pairs in a box) ... carefully pour the ammonia chips into the knee highs, tie a knot in the end and spread them around the pool ... will help absorb the ammonia, and they can be recharged.